A little (antifreeze) experiment for a cold New England night..

Discussion in 'Downeast Boat General Discussion' started by Skeetsdad, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. Skeetsdad

    Skeetsdad Member

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    Since its going to be another very cold night I thought I would do a little experiment with the popular antifreeze products many of us use... I wanted to compare the -50F to the -100F. This is down and dirty, nothing very scientific, but thought Id share it.. Both products are full strength, not diluted. Ill post the results tomorrow. Before anyone comments, I know its been done by I wanted to try it myself.

     
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  2. fishtheblock

    fishtheblock Senior Member

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    I had a pink sealed -50 freeze solid in -8 degree weather on me a couple seasons back, forget which brand it was. Engine gets the blue.
     
  3. Skeetsdad

    Skeetsdad Member

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    IMG_9046.JPG

    Well, that sucked! Temps last night got down to -3. The containers were left outside but out of the wind. The -50 froze and expanded quite a bit. Again, this was full strength Propylene Glycol. I poured a little out of each container so I could measure the expansion. Ive included the rating chart on the side of the -50 bottle.

     
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  4. 28 Seaworthy BHM

    28 Seaworthy BHM Member

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    Oh boy, I bet I'm not the only person on here looking at this and feeling a bit uneasy. I know I'll never use that pink stuff again.
     
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  5. WoundUpMarine

    WoundUpMarine Captain

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    We always run the pink stuff the water systems onboard the boat and then hook up compressed air to it and blow it all out, a little overkill but if it isn't in there it can't freeze. as for the engine run the non tox through it then pull all the zincs and drain as much as possible.
     
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  6. steveinak

    steveinak Captain

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    when i was on my boat today i took some surface temps inside the boat/hull with a hand held infrared thermometer. It was 15 degrees outside today here in pt pleasant nj.
    hull under/around engine 38-39 degrees
    engine block 31-32 degrees
    raw water pump 32 degrees
    black helm seat 72 degrees with sun shining on it.
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  7. TCL

    TCL Senior Member

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    Last spring I drained some of the pink stuff from my engine and put it in my refrigerator. The water bottle expanded some but did not burst and the pink stuff turned into a slushy mixture. I think my engines are safe.
     
    TCL,
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  8. Diesel Jerry

    Diesel Jerry Captain

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    in the two yards I have worked at in the past 6+ years I have always used the pink stuff (-50) on all systems and have never had a problem. I have found it "slushy" but never completely frozen. When I winterized/decom I do the zincs before I run the non-tox thru. My thought process being that you drain most of the SW out so you get a more condensed mix of the non-tox. I also wait until the exhaust water is as pink as the non-tax I am putting in be fore I shut off the engine.
     
  9. Skeetsdad

    Skeetsdad Member

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    WoundUp.

    I think i will take you up on you suggestion and blow the pink antifreeze out of my fresh water system. Should be warm enough over the next few days. I just put in all new PEX tubing and quick connects this past spring. I looked at the temps going back a few years and Boston dipped to -9 on Feb 14th 2016. Still plenty of winter left I guess.
     
  10. WoundUpMarine

    WoundUpMarine Captain

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    I figure it only takes an extra second, we always blow the fresh water out of the lines before we put the pink stuff through, so the compressor and fittings are already there. It's easy when you're doing 2 or 3 boats to get a good system and routine going.
     
  11. Rambler

    Rambler Member

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    I thought I could add a little more to the subject. I manufacture these heat transfer fluids for commercial applications. This is NOT an ad for business as we sell drums, totes and tank wagons of 100% material only. First the color is nothing more than a dye added to the product. The actual product is clear and the color is added to add in knowing when a system is completely filled or flushed. Differant manufacturers use different color dyes. What is needed to know the freeze point and burst point is the % of the propylene glycol in the solution. Freeze point is when the material starts to slush and burst point is a test where you put material in a copper pipe and expansion causes the pipe to burst. PVC pipe would have a much lower burst spec. There is never any need to have more than a 60% solution as you do not gain any freeze protection. Most products you buy on the market are 30-35% solutions and adequate for New England. Because I have it available, I never go below 50%. I have attached a data sheet that shows specifications for freeze and burst points. Lastly, most products on the market are just propylene glycol and water. This can be a corrosive mixture over time. I use an inhibited solution that limits corrosivity. It may not be needed in the salt water side of an engine as salt is doing most of the damage anyway, but it could limit the life of say a hot water tank. Good luck!
     

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  12. morgan1727

    morgan1727 Senior Member

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    So out of the choices most have with these antifreezes the -50deg, -60deg or -100 deg which would you put in your boat, engine and water systems?
     
  13. morgan1727

    morgan1727 Senior Member

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    I thought I had read sometime ago on one of these threads that someone had used a cheap vodka to winterize his water system so it did not leave that bad antifreeze taste in the water lines that is tough to get rid of? Is this true or was someone just making a joke?
     
  14. JimRP31

    JimRP31 Captain

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    This is a very interesting thread. I like Woundup's idea of blowing out the water system but I never liked putting the pink stuff in my fresh water system. The past two years we have purchased the cheapest 80 proof Vodka the NH liqueur store sells. We pour it in the fresh water tank and run the pump until it smells like a martini at the sinks etc. My runs are short, so 6 liters is enough. During the summer we periodically add 1/4 cup of Vodka to kill any bacteria that might be growing in the fresh water tank.
    Skeetsdad, I am going to replace all my fresh water hoses. Can you let me know where you purchased the PEX. I was thinking of just going to a plumbing supply store.
     
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  15. JimRP31

    JimRP31 Captain

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    Morgan1727, Its true. We must have been typing at the same time.
     
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  16. Genius

    Genius Captain

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    Have you had any issues with rubber parts like hoses and pumps? Also, what material is your water tanks? I've heard about this before, but I have also heard that alcohol isn't the best for o rings and other plastic bits. How long before damage becomes an issue if it ever does, IDK. What interests me the most is the disinfecting part of it to get rid of the funk that develops. I cannot use bleach as one of my tanks are aluminum and I understand that it affects them negatively.
     
  17. JimRP31

    JimRP31 Captain

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    Genius,

    So far no problems but, I have only had the boat two years. Planning on replacing the hoses with PEX which I don't believe will be effected by Alcohol.
     
  18. Toolate

    Toolate Captain

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    I would pump it back into the bottle! Christmas gifts for your boss.
     
  19. Rambler

    Rambler Member

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    Pretty funny about the alcohol. Good idea. The propylene glycol used in most solutions is actually a food ingredient found in a lot of juices and things like cough medicine. However the material you are buying is not handled in a food grade manner so there may be some other small contaminates present. The material listed on the beginning of this thread that had a freeze protection to 12 deg F is just under 35% propylene glycol. I use a 50% that I cut myself which gives freeze protection to -28 and burst protection to -100 F. Over kill for sure. For anybody that wants to make their own, you should be able to call any chemical distributor and try to buy 5 gallon pails of Propylene Glycol. If you find Propylene Glycol "USP" grade, that will indicate that it is a food grade product if you care. Then you can cut your own and add food color to dye it your self. It is probably only worth the effort if you are not happy with the protection you are getting.
     
  20. Skeetsdad

    Skeetsdad Member

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    Hi Jim,

    I bought all my PEX tubing and fittings from an on-line company called Freshwatersystems.com. I used the white PEX for cold and red PEX for hot water. I had installed a new hot water heater and a new hot/cold shower on the back deck at the same time. Fittings for those to reduce them up/down to the diameter PEX you chose are also available thru this same site. Customer service was very good.
     
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