Chirp or no chirp

Discussion in 'Marine Electrical / Electronics' started by Jon Kearney, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. Jon Kearney

    Jon Kearney New Member

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    Hello
    I am looking for some feedback. Last year I ran a new Boat with a simrad nse12 machine with a bsm 1 sounder and b744 transducer. I was not impressed with the setup. I am fishing mostly tuna in the northeast in 150-250’ of water. Also do a little bottom fishing. I can upgrade that setup with a bsm-2 sounder and a b265 chirp transducer. The other option is a standalone furuno 588 or 295 with a b260 non chirp transducer. Let me know your thoughts. Appreciate it.
     
  2. Wharf Rat

    Wharf Rat Captain

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    It's the million dollar question. You might be happiest with a stand alone FCV-588 with a B260, although the B275-LH CHIRP transducer has been designed and proven as the tuna and pelagic killer, but you still have to depend on the MFD and it will cost a alot, between the sounder and transducer (I wouldn't waste the money on the BSM series, the S5100 has been a night and day updgrade from the BSM-2 and BSM-3. Also, keep in mind the BSM-1 was not CHIRP, just a low ouput pulse sounder to try to mitigate noise. The 295 is another option as it uses a dual transmission line transducer, although it's about half the brightness of the 588, you'll want to make sure it's inside a pilothouse.
     
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  3. SPINE-A-LINER

    SPINE-A-LINER Member

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    Great info Wharf Rat! Are there any wide beam transducers for the furuno 588 that are available or that you would recommend? The B260 is a 19 degree cone I believe. I’m looking for the largest cone at 50 hz for tuna fishing on the hook. It will be for my cockpit (secondary) Fish finder. Typically 200’. The auto pilot compass for my simrad you sold me works great. Thank you!!
     
  4. Wharf Rat

    Wharf Rat Captain

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    Unfortunately the wide beam pulse 270W is no longer made, but trust me when say the B260 is the best possible transducer for that unit. Think of the high frequency as a spotlight, LF as a flood light at 50Hz. You'll be very happy! For the 295/1150/DFF3, though, you can use the B275LH-W "CHIRP" transducer for shallower waters where you can select a specific frequency, or my personal favorite, the B265LM. That said, big price jump to from a 587/588 to an an 1150! One question, what will be your primary sounder? Would like to prefer avoiding interference..
     
  5. tunaorlater

    tunaorlater Captain

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    Is there a tilted element that compairs?
     
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  6. Wharf Rat

    Wharf Rat Captain

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    There was, but it went the way of the 270W. Long story short, it became extremely expensive for Airmar to continue to make the tilted element high frequency, the model were the B264W. They were sold individually or as a pair, http://www.airmar.com/uploads/Brochures/b164.pdf for people who wanted both deep water coverage as well as the 25 degree beam angle for pelagics. Mostly though we sold the B264W 200kHZ which at 1KW was great with the FCV-585 and 587. Once CHIRP came along though, it just became too cost ineffective to produce both when Airmar was making wide-angle CHIRP transducers. The issue now is that there isn't enough demand in the eyes of Airmar to produce a wide angle pulse transducer (at the very hi gh cost)for the FCV-58x series when anyone who has an 1100, 295, 1150, can still use the CHIRP version. I've argued, but the price point would be the same as the CHIRP B175-LH-W, which even though I've said people will pay for the right transducer, Airmar got stuck with a lot of those wide beam units as they weren't marketed well and regionally, only have a real home here in the Northeast. Sad.
     
  7. sleeper

    sleeper Member

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    i currently have a b258 to raymarine, plan on upgrading to furuno or garmin,is that transducer ok or worth the time and $ to upgrade to b260 or chirp?? (access to tranducer is difficult)( just rec fish less than 90ft,) any input is appreciated..
     
  8. SPINE-A-LINER

    SPINE-A-LINER Member

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    I have an older raymarine E120 that came with the boat at purchase. My plan is to upgrade to a furuno 295 at the helm. Does it make sense to get either of the two ducers you mentioned above for the 295 and tie (network) both the 588 and the 295 into the same or run separate transducers? Between the two ducers above which would have the larger cone (or that you would recommend) for marking "Charlie" and my baits? I hope I'm not jumping on someone else's thread and this is relevent info. for others. Thanks again!
     
  9. tunaorlater

    tunaorlater Captain

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    Is the b175 essentially the same or close to the b275? If I'm killing your thread Jon please let me know and I'll delete my post. I'm using an 1150.
     
  10. riskybusiness

    riskybusiness Senior Member

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    I have a Furuno with a 1k black box and a b265 Chirp transducer and it’s sucks...my old Furuno fcv 585 with a 1kw transducer was 10x better across the board on everything
     
  11. riskybusiness

    riskybusiness Senior Member

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    And I don’t know how the chirp ones don’t scare everything in a 5mile radius away. I can here mine clicking over the engine in the wheelhouse or on the dock. I’m going to be ripping the duper out this spring I think
     
  12. Squider42

    Squider42 Member

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    Risky, which black box do you have the DFF1, DFF3, or DFF1-UHD chirp black box?
     
  13. Wharf Rat

    Wharf Rat Captain

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    There's a huge difference between the B258 and B260. Both are pulse transducers, but the B26o has much better performance with it's element array. I wouldn't keep it, as the B260 is almost identical in shape and size, fairing block is the same length, the distance from the main shank to the retaining bolt forward is the same, so no new holes needed. Only difference is the B260 is shaped more like a teardrop so is actually narrower andand as such the fairing block is more streamlined as well as a bit narrower. you can alter the fairing block and make it work, but it might be easier at the end of the day to just use the newer fairing block. You can use the old one to cut the angle proper, but depending on the access, if that's not possible, i'd consider using a filler like marinetex and a good amount of 4200 to make sure the gap is filled. It sounds like more work than it is, honestly, but it's a huge difference in performance. Take a look at this for the dimensions as well as a comparison between the two. http://www.airmar.com/uploads/Brochures/1kw_thruhull_products1.pdf
    That said, with the depths you're fishing at, the High-Wide CHIRP might be more of what you're after, and the B275LH-W is the same dimensions as the B260. The other option is to go with a B175HW which is a flush mount transducer, but you'll need to find and drill out another hole. The deciding factor really is if you're looking for a full MFD or a stand-alone fishfinder like the FCV-588. Send me a PM with your number, I don't want to hijack the thread but this is good stuff for anyone who ends up stumbling across it.
     
  14. Wharf Rat

    Wharf Rat Captain

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    The B175 is a single channel transducer, flush mount with a tilted element. It can be gotten in Low CHIRP, Medium CHIRP, High Cigh HIRP, or the HIGH WIDE which is what the B275 uses for its high frequency, transmitting at a fixed 25 degrees for shallower water. Technically, with an 1150, you can use a combination of the B175s based on the frequencies you want to use, but keep in mind the 11150 being a tone burst vs a CHIRP sounder, you can only select a single frequency for each transducer. We do it a lot, for one example we'll set the Low CHIRP at 35 Khz, a Medium CHIRP at 88 kHZ, or the high at 215 kHZ. Those are just examples, it all depends on what you're hunting and at what depths.
     
  15. StowIt

    StowIt Member

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    Great info Wharf Rat. What is the 1150 that you are referring to? I cannot find a reference for it to follow the above.

    I am putting a new boat together this year and have been happy with my Simrad. I'll definitely use one of the experts to put the system together but I want to know what I should be looking for. Plan to fish in and offshore. If I go with a Simrad mfd will I need to pair that with the S5100 module and then either the B260 or B275-LH? It seems that most of the mfd's come with a sounder like the older NSS 8 that I have.

    thanks
     
  16. riskybusiness

    riskybusiness Senior Member

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    I think the dff1-uhd chirp
     
  17. Downrigga

    Downrigga Captain

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    Chris is da man! I will need some more toys in the spring Chris! I love my chirp!
     
  18. xbskt

    xbskt Captain

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    I had the B260 on my Blackfin with the Northstar package. It came out when the Northstar went black and we went to Garmin and a ducer mounted inside the hull. I never really liked it as much but I did like my Northstar stuff. I figured I'd reuse the old B260 when the new Furuno stuff went into the Crowley. As you can see (and as Chris says) it is a big sucker. FWIW my new FCV 588 with the B260 gives excellent results as Chris said it would. My fishfinder is not the problem I can blame things on anymore.
    I can't imagine CHIRP would make a big difference at my skill level. Or lack thereof.
    My too sense.
    cables and thruhull.jpg fairing block installed 2.jpg
     

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