My first boat project

Discussion in 'Downeast Projects and Boat Building' started by Jerzy54, Dec 16, 2016.

  1. Toolate

    Toolate Captain

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    THose patches of glass look like they may have been the bottoms of storage compartments or something? Or was there a grid of stringers in here.

    I like a man who isnt afraid of a little work and you are clearly one of those people :). Nice progress. Got plenty of glass to work with too!
     
  2. Jerzy54

    Jerzy54 Member

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    These marks are grid of the stringers with 1/2-3/4 of the resin around. Thanks for the kind words.
     
  3. Jerzy54

    Jerzy54 Member

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    Back of the boat up to the cabin companionway is done. I may have some touch ups to do here and there. I started grinding inside the cabin and there is a lot of this stuff also. It will take sometime to finish it, considering I'm doing this after full time job and I'm no spring chicken anymore. I will need a lots of beer to finish this project.Lol.
     
  4. Jerzy54

    Jerzy54 Member

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    Did anybody used Total Boat epoxy from Jamsetown Distributors? Any good for transom repair. I need to patch oversized outdrive key hole. I'm looking for something
    strong and easy to work with.
     
  5. leaky

    leaky Captain

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    Are you glassing or making a filler? My favorites for glassing are Marinepoxy from duckworks boatbuilding for the $$, or system III Silvertip, which both have a similarly great viscosity but without going all the way up to huge quantities I can get the Marinepoxy cheaper and it I think it's about as good (even though slivertip is sold as a premium resin while marinepoxy is sold as an economy version, not any difference just marketing IMHO).

    For making fillers I tend to use Progressive if I was buying it just for the purpose, which is very similar to a System III general purpose resin, not as good for glassing as it's kinda thick, tends to crystallize during storage, but is perfectly fine making fillers and a cheaper alternative to the better laminating resins, at least it is for me since I'm in NH where Progressive epoxy is shipped from.

    Jon
     
  6. Jerzy54

    Jerzy54 Member

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    Jon, thanks for your advice, I need this epoxy to patch large and several smaller holes in transom and to glue new plywood to the transom. The hole I'm talking about is approx. 12" x 26" amd the thicknes of the fiberglass is arond 1/4". Only the plus for the Total Boat is no shipping cost.
     
  7. frobo.1

    frobo.1 Member

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    try raka epoxy they are located in Florida, I built a skiff couple years ago and purchased all of my epoxy and glass from them. they were way cheaper than west even with the shipping
     
  8. leaky

    leaky Captain

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    BTW looks like JD sells a standard 5:1 resin and a premium 2:1. My preference are the 2:1 products, easier to get the ratio right especially in a small batch and they seem to be less caustic. West System for instance, which is a 5:1 I've used with perfect success but do not prefer, has got a real stink to it for reasons unknown. The 2:1 products I've used have a very mild odor, I can smell it from sensitivity, smells like half and half to me, but a little of the fumes from it or when being used outdoors it is not irritant like West System.

    Free shipping is good but for instance a 1 gallon kit of the cheapest TotalBoat 5:1 ratio resin is $120 (more expensive 2:1 stuff is $160) - for a 1.5 gallon kit of marinepoxy it's $135 shipped, you get an extra half gallon for the $15 even after the shipping. With duckworks it gets much better too when you buy bigger kits; for a 3 gallon kit was about $80/gallon shipped to your door, when you go up to a 6 gallon kit the price drops to $68/gallon.

    Anyway - not trying to say there's anything wrong w/ JD stuff, it's almost definitely one of the other major brand names re-labeled, just isn't a huge value even with the free shipping. Whatever you do if you are split between a bigger kit and a smaller kit, get the quantity; much better to get the price per gallon down and end up with a little extra than to be ordering small quantities multiple times - the stuff has an infinite shelf life under any reasonable condition, put it in the basement and it will be exactly the same 5 years later when you need a little epoxy for some other project.

    Of course if you have a friend w/ a good commercial discount at any of the big suppliers the price goes way down too.

    Jon
     
  9. Jerzy54

    Jerzy54 Member

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    Hey, great points here. You are right about the quantities and shipping cost. I'm new to all of this and I have lots to learn, but I thing all basic epoxies are the same and are sold under the different brands.IMO.
    I was thinking to use vinylester resin for stringers and bulkheads, but with the cost of this epoxy maybe is not much savings between two of them and vinylester has onle three months of shelf life.
     
  10. Jerzy54

    Jerzy54 Member

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    Raks looks promising also, thank for the info.
     
  11. Jerzy54

    Jerzy54 Member

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    After serching the web I think Raka is a great product. I just email them a question for recomendation for the stringes lamination.
     
  12. leaky

    leaky Captain

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    If I wasn't going to gelcoat or use other polyester products it I'd used epoxy whenever wood is involved. Put the layers on top of eachother while the previous is sticky, if not let it go to full cure, was with soap and water, sand, remove the dust, and proceed with the next layer.

    Learning how to use VE recently I found it's not like polyester as far as a laminating resin not gong to full cure on the surface to allow extended time for additional layers, it behaves more like an epoxy and can cure fully to the surface in as little as a few days, requiring surface prep like epoxy would. Epoxy I think is easier to use but VE compared to polyester you do have better adhesion, better water proofing, better strength, and some properties actually beat epoxy but adhesion and water proofing are not in that list.

    The business about VE having a shelf life of 3 months is a little inaccurate though, if where you are buying it from sells it relatively fresh some are rated for 6 months, including the Vipel that Merton's sells. At $220 for a 5 gallon bucket it's less expensive than epoxy but shipping it is going to start offsetting that. Polyester resins are actually the same way, some manufacturers say 3 months shelf life too, basically polyester is not polyester resin either. How you store them impacts shelf life, the manufacturers are accounting for situations where resins may be kept in warmer temperatures, if you have a basement that stays at 60 degrees all the time they are going to hold all their properties for longer than in a shed outside that reaches at 90 degrees at times.

    Jon
     
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  13. Jerzy54

    Jerzy54 Member

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    Happy New Year all,

    After long silence I would like to share what is going on with my project. Last spring after total demo I started the dreadful grinding job and after week and a half I got around 70% done.

    One of the problems with grinding is that I need to have my glasses under safety goggles and after a few minutes of working I have inside of my goggles fogged out and outside was cover with glass dust. There was no way I could see anything what was I doing. On the top of that weather got hot and humid and it was impossible to continue this nightmare and my lower back got so bad it wasn't possible to continue my project. Instead I spent my time researching about rebuilding boats like that.


    Now I got a new energy to continue. Weather is getting better and allows me to get back where I left off. I also started understand why this boat had so much resin in between stringers and on the bottom of the boat. The answer here is very simple, it was dirty patch job. Somebody didn't want to do total rebuild and sandwiched rotten stringers with short stringers to have something better to attach the engine to it. Then they pour catalyzed resin on the top of the original stringers to fill the gap. Also they cutout the rotten deck and attached temporary bulk heads to the rotten ones and then they attached balsa blanks to create new deck. The wooden keel had rusted bolts and was barley attached to the bottom. This was a major source of the leaks and the last owner had to have bilge pumps pumping water out to prevent sinking. I am still thinking that she quite often had bilge full of water.


    My plan for this year is to finish grinding after I will layout and fit all stringers and bulkheads. Then I am planning to start put all back together and fiber glass all that stuff back in. I want gelcoat everything under deck, then I will put a new deck and fiberglass it. I'm planning to add floatation foam everywhere I can. I hope I can to all this work before summer.
    20180211_133910.jpg 20180304_145940.jpg


    .
     
  14. Brooksie

    Brooksie Captain

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    If no one has mentioned US Composites Fiberglass , Epoxy , Composites, Carbon Fiber - U.S. Composites, Inc. for your supplies, you should look at them. I get all my stuff there and have always had good luck even in winter. They always charge exact shipping, no handling/games.

    b/4 you decide on stringer material, go to your lumberyard for a bending session to compare different woods. You will find some amazing differences.

    I am itching just looking at the pictures. Good work
     
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  15. Jerzy54

    Jerzy54 Member

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    Thanks, for you kind words. I just order Raka Epoxy from gulfstream composites and service was great and there were no shipping charges.
    I also have a local place for all other supplies.
    I decided to go with 3/4 marine plywood and I will epoxy two pieces to make each stringer. I still have to make decision what kind of wood to use for a new keel.
    The old one was oak or similar hard wood. I am thinking to use pine and threaded with epoxy to prevent rotting. I hope this is right decision.
     
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  16. kcassells

    kcassells Senior Member

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    Visit this website for some good info.;
    Fiberglass , Epoxy , Composites, Carbon Fiber - U.S. Composites, Inc.
    Do a little research here in regards to epoxies, vinylester and poly. The amount of saturations will depend on what cloth you decide to use. I get all my goodies from them...shipping costs sucks but they have never failed me. The hazmat issues but Epoxy does not have a hazmat issue.
    Whatevere you start with you will need to stick with it. Well for example vinylester and poly should not be bedded over Epoxy. Epoxy can be bedded over either. Most boats are poly so poly is fine to use. Epoxy is the best as far as I'm concerend but also the most expensive. Might explain why my rehab is taking so long...$$ and time.
    Your above referenced technique is on the money. Just get down to the good glass. Should almost be pink when wet. hmmmm
    KC
     
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  17. kcassells

    kcassells Senior Member

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    Don't use the csm it's a waste of time with epoxy. Send it back.
    Also send back the 1708 tell them you want the 1700 without the csm backing. They are not needed w/epoxy and will soak up all the epoxy resin. 1700 biax costs less then 1708 also.
    Can be done but is a waste of $$$ for product and epoxy.
    Poly needs the styrenes to make the bond, epoxy does not.

    [​IMG]

    DB170 - 17oz Biaxial - NO MAT
    +/- 45 degree

    Contains double bias(17oz) stitched at 45degrees.
    Does not have a mat backing.
    Thickness: 0.030"
    FG-DB170-50
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
  18. kcassells

    kcassells Senior Member

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    Sent you a pm
     
  19. Jerzy54

    Jerzy54 Member

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    Thanks for all your advice. They are right on. I will be using epoxy only to glue transom to the boat and to glue 3/4 plywood together to create 1 1/2 thick stringers and bulkheads
    and maybe to waterproof and glue the keel to the bottom of the hull. I will be using polyester to wrap everything and to tab it to the hull and to waterproof and attached deck.
    Also I have some light visible in some spots and I want to use polyester to reinforce these areas.
    Let me know opinion about this?
     
  20. kcassells

    kcassells Senior Member

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    Sounds good to me!;)
    Fill any voids you might find and Always wet out your plywood prior to glassing. Especially the edges. That area is like a sponge to water. If you don't the wood will suck up the resin and your glass will be resin starved.
     

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