Newbie to the forum - Help me find my next boat. Looking to move up from an eastbay 37'

Discussion in 'Downeast Boat General Discussion' started by S2DM, Nov 26, 2018.

  1. S2DM

    S2DM Member

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    Location:
    Santa Barbara, CA 93101, US
    Boat Make:
    37' Grand Banks Eastbay
    Could use some suggestions on models to look for. We are in the Santa Barbara, California area and currently have a grandbanks eastbay 37'. I do really like the boat but we've found we aren't really using it in the manner we thought we would and are looking to size up with some different features.

    We do fish, and sometimes alot, but we aren't agro about it, and usually focus on halibut, seabass and rockfish around the channel islands. These days, we more commonly go out for 2-3 days, will fish a little, go onshore for a hike, dive a little, and then go look for waves. I've found with surfboards and 2 couples and a baby, it gets tight really quick. I've also found everyone avoids going downstairs to the galley if they can, so a big portion of the boat never gets used. I'm the only one that can hang down there without getting sick when we are underway, so I'm always cooking.

    What we are hoping to find is
    • 40-46 long
    • Ideally a beam close to 15'
    • bigger cockpit with more room for chairs and a person or two fishing
    • Galley up configuration
    • Ideally a cabin forward configuration as we don't end up using the front deck much
    • Don't care that much about twin vs single screw, although seems pretty much all the sportfishers out here have twins. I was a twin only guy, but have recently been seeing the merits of a big single.
    • Don't mind a flybridge, but would prefer not. We are usually out with my inlaws who are getting older, so I'd really like as few stairs as possible. I also like using the roof for surfboards and kayaks
    • 16-17knot comfortable cruise
    What I've been looking at currently is something like a lobster style downeast boat like a wesmac or a wayne beal/lowell brothers style hull. I've read conflicting reports on how those do in our local following seas. They are also uncommon out here although there are a few in the SB harbor. So I may be looking at shipping one.

    Could really use some advice on:

    1. How these boats do in the frequent following seas we have here. I've read a bit and it sounds like much more of a stylistic preference as opposed to a wesmac not handling following seas well. But it does give me pause that I see so few here. That said, everything about the layout of a wesmac 42 or 46 is much more desirable to me than what I see in sportfishers here.
    2. Models to look at. Hoping to stay under 350k, ideally more like 300.
    3. I don't mind something that needs a little work. I have a company on the side that builds high end custom composite campers with lifting roofs, so I've done a fair bit of glass, electrical and plumbing work.
    4. $.02 on why all these boats are generally singles vs almost all twins out here?
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
    S2DM,
  2. ArchHibb

    ArchHibb Captain

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    Welcome West Coast Scott! All the things you are hoping to find are precisely reasons a DE would be a great fit. A big cockpit (it’s an oceangoing pickup truck), galley up wheelhouse, head & sleeping accommodations down below. Put all that in a blue water hull that can take whatever Mother Nature wants to dish out and you’ve got the perfect boat to pursue your adventures.

    Single diesel w/large prop = simple operation, reliability and great fuel efficiency.
     
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  3. Keelboater

    Keelboater Captain

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    "How these boats do in the frequent following seas we have here?"

    Welcome the the DBF Scott. Generally speaking, the commercial guys earn their living on these boats all year long in all sea conditions. If a following sea was as bad as some people make it sound, nobody would be working on board these vessels to begin with. In fact, the overall design concept would have been re-invented many years ago. Instead, we are taking old D.E. hulls and making them new again.
     
  4. S2DM

    S2DM Member

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    That’s part of what I find interesting, that’s the only boat commercial lobster guys will use in my area and there are a lot of them, but only a handful of DE non commercial boats. And the local m.o. is that they would be here if they did well here. To me it seems more like a local stylistic difference and a paucity of family builders here. I know it’s unlikely, but hoping the next boat will be my last stop for a long while, so really trying to learn as much as I can.

    1) Suggestions on boats in my price range? I’d love an older wesmac 46, but it seems a stretch to get one of those home at 300k.

    2) any more info on life with a single? My father in law is very attached to engine redundancy. Where we go, a tow is never more than 2-3 hrs away. But we often fish in close where an engine failure could mean trouble. I’d thought about adding a 20hp high thrust kicker just as a get me away from land if the engine dies backup. I’m 6’6” tall and can’t access most of the engine room in my Eastbay without some circus level contortion and I’ve been increasingly choosing simplicity over luxury as I’ve fixed that boat up.
     
    S2DM,
  5. LadyMaureen

    LadyMaureen Captain

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    Budget ?
     
  6. S2DM

    S2DM Member

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    Hopefully around 300 but could stretch to 350.
     
    S2DM,
  7. ArchHibb

    ArchHibb Captain

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    Here’s my take on that.

    If you haven’t looked closely at downeast boats before (either in person or online) you’ll quickly discover that they have a very different price/value structure from most other boats. In short, your budget will buy a lot more in a production boat (size/ speed/ condition/ features or all of the above) than a DE since almost all are handbuilt with a high degree of customization.

    As you might imagine, this cuts both ways. Custom things you might like vs. total deal-breakers. Also, the level of fit and finish tends to be less than production boats since builds are geared towards commercial market.

    The commercial folks are making an investment in their business with a focus on utility (I wasn’t kidding about the pickup truck) while us recreational folks tend to appreciate speed/ features/ finishes, etc.

    There’s a thread around here somewhere that digs into this in greater detail, but others will chime in I’m sure.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
  8. Aotea

    Aotea Member

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    Life with a single?

    Acquaintances of ours have cruised 56,000 miles in six years, across the Atlantic twice, and ventured the farthest north ever for a private vessel under 70 feet, into the Arctic ice cap, in a Nordhavn 68, with a single engine -- Lugger L1276A 12 liter 6 cylinder 425 HP (7,690 hours as of October 1, 2018), Twin Disc MG-5114DC with 3.43:1 reduction, 4-blade bronze Hungshen 44”D X 38.5”P, and 3-1/2” Aquamet 22HT -- and a Lugger wing engine -- Lugger L1064A 4.5 liter 4 cylinder 140 HP (333 hours as of October 1, 2018), with a hydraulic PTO to run the bow thruster, stern thruster, windlass, emergency bilge pump, and anchor chain wash.

    They considered twins prior to build, but went with a single and wing. Different boat, different objectives, different in every way from a DE.

    But what it says to me (I'm a learner), 'single' is a state of mind. I read somewhere once, 'twins are a costly way of worrying about a lee shore'. Nevertheless, fishermen and women, who stake their lives on their boats, invariably build boats with singles.
     
  9. ArchHibb

    ArchHibb Captain

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    Engineered and robust “get home” systems exist if you require one.
    Cool “get home” set up.
     
  10. S2DM

    S2DM Member

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    Awesome timing on that one, I do a lot of CAD modeling and had been drawing up a system utilizing a 120hp EV conversion engine and a small tesla battery pack that gets charged by the genset. We almost always have time and rarely go far enough that boats us is more than 4 hours away. So I really just wanted something that would push us away from the islands in that rare, rare, rare circumstance that we lost power in shore in the wind.

    I'm heading down to Seaboard Marine tomorrow to see a 42 ft H&H osmond beal that they are building out for a customer. Theres a 40 ft wayne beal finished by Farrins a few slips down from me as well that I've peaked at but am angling for a tour of.
     
    S2DM,
  11. S2DM

    S2DM Member

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    Thats actually what I'm looking for re: fit and finish. Our Grand Banks is schmancy nice, but not really my style. I'm also 6'6" tall, so pretty much anything I buy I'm going to be lifting the roof a few inches and remodeling the interior.

    So, at my price point, debating buying something like the H&H osmond beal 42 and finishing it out in my own shop over a period of time, vs getting something older thats turn key and then making some mods. I was getting ready to carve up my grandbanks and do a custom wheel house that was pushed way forward to allow me to bring the galley up and then do a hull stretch and started realizing I'd be much better off starting with something that was closer to what I want and then just dialing in the details and interior layout.
     
    S2DM,
  12. S2DM

    S2DM Member

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    Seems like the Wesmacs are really the top of the line for the style boat I'm looking at which with my usage pattern isnt something I'd necessarily need. Any recs on boats that are the next tier down price wise but still very solid, sea worthy etc?

    The H&H boats seem to be a common commercial choice around here, but I don't have any sense for where they sit on the quality tiers.
     
    S2DM,
  13. djmarchand

    djmarchand Senior Member

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    There are 52 yachts listed in the US on Yachtworld as downeast style for less than $350,000. Many are not even close to downeasters and a fair amount wouldn't be considered as true downeasters by the members of this forum. But many of the latter would be good choices because they are production recreational boats with nice fit and finish. These are Vicems, Legacys, lots of Sabers and Eastbays.

    In this list there are a handful of bespoke, Maine built downeasters. One of these is a 1976 Bruno Stillman that was refitted with meticulous mechanical/electrical systems installation but the creature comforts/aesthetics are a bit spartan, ie exposed plumbing in the cabin. Another is a 2006 Duffy 42' flybridge that is a bit utilitarian inside which is typical of how downeasters are finished out. Maybe the nicest of the true downeasters is a Westmac 42 with a single Cat 3406E, but again a bit utilitarian inside.

    For my money I would concentrate on the faux production downeasters that are finished nicely.

    David
     
  14. cptnpete

    cptnpete Senior Member

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  15. djmarchand

    djmarchand Senior Member

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    Interesting to compare engines, hp and speed claims for the two Jarvis Newman 46's noted above. The first has a single DD 8V92 of 600 hp and will max out at 12.2 kts whereas the second one with a 380 hp Cat maxes at 14 kts. Also the first one lists its dry weight at 52,000 lbs and the second at 44,000 lbs.

    Something isn't adding up here with the first one providing more realistic speed data, although both look under powered. I would want at least 800 hp for those boats.

    David
     
  16. cptnpete

    cptnpete Senior Member

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  17. S2DM

    S2DM Member

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    I like a lot of things about the Jarvis Newmans, but the big issues that knock them out are the more rear set wheel house which puts alot of the living area downstairs and the smaller cockpit in the rear. My inlaws dislike being downstairs and I don't physically fit downstairs at my height. Don't mind ducking on my way to bed, but it makes for a sore trip if I'm hunched over inside the whole time.
     
    S2DM,
  18. cptnpete

    cptnpete Senior Member

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    The JN 46's I have seen are pretty massive. With lots of headroom. They would dwarf your Eastbay.

    I take it you have ruled out GB Europa 42's and 46's which seem like they have a lot going for them.

    A fun process for you no doubt...
     
  19. Hallelujah Newman 36

    Hallelujah Newman 36 Senior Member

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    I have a Farrin's built Jarvis Newman(rebuilt ours is 40 years old, check out our thread). Our boat is smaller at 36 feet and different hull shape than the 46. Farrin's does an outstanding job finishing boats, commercial or recreational. They finished our boat to what we wanted. There were a small number of Farrin's boats in Santa Barbara area. They just finished up a custom built 43 Lowell with 1200 HP built to the highest level yacht standards.
    The JN hulls are older design and built down. The hulls are generally very thick and well built. I am no expert but the JN hull speed may be slower than you might like. This may explain SOME of the similarity in speed. Also prop and gear will influence speed. As you know not all just HP. The configuration can be changed to fit your needs. I have seen a number of them set up from commercial fishing to recreational trawler. One even did the northwest passage. The hull design maybe older than what you want. They are very solid hulls with good sea keeping ability. There are many other hulls that have those qualities and may be more efficient. Good luck with your search. It can be a ton of fun.
     
  20. Aotea

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