Wet transom and outboard removal

Discussion in 'Downeast Projects and Boat Building' started by Billyclub, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. cobia23

    cobia23 Senior Member

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    I think Leaky is referring to the Hermco fiberglass bracket, in my opinion the benefit over an aluminum bracket is that it won’t corrode and doesn’t require any special paint or powder coat. They install just the same as an aluminum bracket would, and are just as strong especially if using a Hermco. If you were to go on Classic seacraft , it seems to be the go to bracket for Seacrafts resto’s
     
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  2. leaky

    leaky Captain

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    Ahhh OK - I'm not sure corrosion would be much of a consideration with a well made aluminum bracket though. People coming from fiberglass often do get concerned with aluminum boats as if they are just going to rot away but the truth is no such issue ever arises or needs to be addressed - here and there with crazy shore power problems I'm sure there are examples, but that's rare. With something like a bracket that can simply be unbolted I can't see anything to be worried about, if you were that 1 in 1000 (or whatever the odds are) who runs into such a problem worst scenario the bracket could be removed/repaired/replaced...

    Not that I see anything wrong w /a glass bracket either, however in order to be as strong as aluminum it would need to be much heavier, that is unless they are somehow exotically cored which would also be a detriment with something like an engine bracket since the application really just calls for unquestionable brute strength and durability. In terms of strength to weight ratio aluminum is off the charts compared to fiberglass or even steel, and the outboard bolted to it is also aluminum so IMHO aluminum fits the application better.

    Jon
     
  3. Billyclub

    Billyclub Senior Member

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    Hello everyone. I trust everyone is haveing a decent winter if there was such a thing. I am at a point that I need to make a decision regardin g the transom bracket. I have gathered quotes from 4 different manufactorers (Ocean Master, Armstrong, Hermco and A&J ). They all have there merits for consideration which is why I’m having such a diffilcult tim e making a decision.
    Ocean Master makes their own bracket out of fiberglass. It is shipped in two parts and requires assemble and finish glass work. It is the most expensive at $5,500 + shipping to Maine. The V of the bracket mates up to the exact dimensions of the existing transom so it extends the bottom of the V another 2’. This would increase floatation, improve planing.
    Ocean Master transom bracket
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    The second bracket is Hermco. He undoubtedly makes an excellent bracket and states he has made two or three brackets for Ocean Master boats. He does not recall any problems with the installs and states that I would need to do whatever it takes to get the bracket to work. It comes fully assembled and is made out of F. Glass. Base price is $3695.00 + shipping
    The third bracket is Armstrong Armstrong Brackets . . . the foundation for new life in your old boat.. This all aluminum bracket requires bonding and zincs. It’s painted and is relatively plug and play with a 30” setback. Priced at $4273 + shipping. They make a lot of brackets for many boat maunfactorers so Im sure it’s a decent bracket. I’m just not sure I want to go with aluminum consideering the boat is docked in a marina and stray current.
    The last bracket is A&J welding out of Miami FLA. They make many marine related products. I know very little regarding thier brackets and would be open to any input regarding the bracket they make. They are the least expensive of all four, $3,000. + shipping 100% Aluminum Marine Structures Custom Build to your Needs
    Im looking for personal knowledge and points of view for consideration. Cost is important but I also want quality and will pay for it. Just don’t want to spend more thn needed with no obvious benefits
    Let’r rip and thanks in advance for your input
    Glenn
     
  4. leaky

    leaky Captain

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    Granted it was awhile ago (~12 years) - I paid ~$1500 for this one and at the time they were much cheaper than others and also were built a little heavier at the time. I put a picture of that taken last year below. You probably should give D&D Marine a call. 228-806-2684. Transom Brackets Custom Made by D&D Marine

    My only complaint is (because it's got Armstrong access hatches which I believe leak) there was no provision in the bracket to empty it if you got water in it, ie no drain fitting built into it - so at least once or twice over time I realized I was running around with a bracket full of water - actually I suppose that proves the welding doesn't leak since sitting on the trailer it would remain full of water for weeks :). Of course the simple solution was installing a bilge pump in there, which I did with a check valve on the output so that would not also be a source of water in the bracket.

    To me given the engines are aluminum and it's a much higher strength to weight ratio, an aluminum bracket makes a lot of sense. Worst scenario if you somehow managed to rot holes in such a bracket over 10 years (which I'm not sure ever happens even without zincs - keep in mind entire boats are built of aluminum and sit in the water with no protection) then you could always replace the bracket. There are so many boats out there with aluminum engine brackets I cannot see being concerned over that.

    Jon

    20170507_182443.jpg
     
  5. leaky

    leaky Captain

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    Also I guess I should state - by using a V'd bracket you nullify most performance gains you can have from a bracket, all for what is a very small amount of extra flotation. You should talk to the manufacturers about that - V'd brackets are mostly a feel good thing... Look at how small of an area of "V" exists under this bracket. You might get 200 lbs of buoyancy on a very high end estimate with a V on the bottom, like a relatively small guy standing there, more likely you gain like a basketball sized area and < 100 lbs.

    If I ever did this again on a boat I would add a set of hydraulic jack plates in the process, which would make the setback length on the bracket a little shorter too. Reason being there is so much power and speed you can tap into by being able to raise the engines directly up and down, which ends up being compromised between finding your best top end speed/efficiency against keeping the props gripping the water. If you can adjust bracketed engines on the fly you literally might gain 5 MPH on the top end versus the position you will want then in for running through open ocean with chop/swells where they need to be lower for traction.

    Jon
     
  6. Billyclub

    Billyclub Senior Member

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    I decided to go with Custom marine welding out of Miami FLA. They powder coat their brackets and awlgrip non skid on platform with your color choice. They also supply and install the anode for the bracket in advance
    I have decided to consult and possibly have professional help in the fiberglassing of the transom. My attempts at getting ahead in the fall for Spring transom repair may have placed the repair in jeopardy. I removed the core from the outside thus the repair will be done from the exterior and not the inside transom. I have learned after lots of reading that the exterior approach is not the normal way of replacing the transom but can be done safely with excellent results. My concern and reason for reaching out to a dedicated fiberglass tradesman is that the tabbing and structural strength comes from how you do the glass work and the glass schedule. I have decided to become a helper and learn from this instead of trying to be a jack of all trades. This is contingent on his willingness to help me. We are to meet up this week and I will see what he has to say. I know that most tradesman don't want to be bothered with a boat owner watching over their shoulder and being a PIA. So I will be very happy if he is willing to help me out
     
  7. Billyclub

    Billyclub Senior Member

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    744F2D82-3573-4259-B68F-5372C2A03419.jpeg Well, it's been a long road and the boat is finally complete. I ma very happy with the results and the stance the vessel assumes in the water. By ridding the boat of the wet plywood and adding the V btracket I now have dry decks. I still have some engine adjustments to make and may have to lower the motor because I think there is some caviatation happening. Im gonna run the boat for a couple trips offshore and then decide. I did the work myself because the price the fiberglass guy quoted as crazy. I learned alot about epoxy and fiberglass
     

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  8. leaky

    leaky Captain

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    Looks great - if you followed manufacturers spec's on the bracket it's highly likely the engines are set too high. I think they tend to err on the side that gives you better top end speed (engines as high as possible without blowing out or overheating) versus what works good in a sea (which is a little lower in the water, better "traction", easier cooling, slower top speed)..

    Anyway - drop the engines a couple pegs and see how it runs. Watch your temperature and water pressure for awhile. If you still have problems consider a prop that is larger diameter with more cup than what you've got..

    Other things to be aware of - sometimes the engine brackets do not have the same angle as your transom where the engines mount, this can make it so you can't trim the engines far down enough - they make wedges for that, not saying I believe you need them, just be aware the option is there..

    Last (and sorry I said this already I think) if I ever did what you just did again, I would've spent the additional $1500 for a set of hydraulic jack plates. The reason being is you might literally be able to gain 5 MPH at a height (not trim but actual height) that does not work so well with swells or chop, which is also directly impacting to efficiency (increasing it or decreasing it as you move your engines up and down respectively).. Hydraulic jack plates give you adjustment on the fly, for the best of both worlds whether it means keeping the props locked down in the chop or being as fast and/or efficient as possible when it's smooth.

    Good luck you will get it dialed in nice I'm sure and nice work!

    Jon
     
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  9. kcassells

    kcassells Senior Member

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    You nasty BoY! Everything you said is dead on the mark.
     
  10. Billyclub

    Billyclub Senior Member

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    The problem with lowering them, which I believe is what needs to happen, is that the bottom elongated mounting hole is at the max setting. If you look at the first picture, the bottom mounting bolt is at the top of the elongated hole. Dont really want to drill another 1/2” hole in a brand new bracket
     
  11. leaky

    leaky Captain

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    It's always 20/20 vision after the fact but I think you are having little headaches due to the manufacturers tendency to put the engines too high for offshore boats. So when I did this I took a non-V bracket (which makes things easier) and dropped it I believe 2 to 3 inches below what the spec was for 25 inch shaft engines, which was all good because technically I could've gotten away w/ 20 inch shaft's after the bracket (in which case the bracket would've still been set 2 or 3 inches lower than I set it)..

    What was really funny was when I repowered I went through this thing with the dingbats at the dealership where upon every warranty issue (and unfortunately I had a few bugs in my engines), I'd bring the boat in, they'd slam the engines back down to the lowest setting which was phenomenally low - the problem with dealership tech's, no common sense, they kept acting as if my boat was some factory model grady or something not a custom bracket that was custom installed... Could go on about those idiots but back to the point..

    What you can do, without bucking up the $$ for hydraulic jack plates, is get yourself a manual jack plate or simply a spacer like what is pictured. You could also make a spacer w/ channel aluminum.. Pictured model I looked up real quick is $175 a set at this place, no idea but I bet you could find them cheaper, and you might be able to find them with less setback (this one is 4 inch, not too bad but maybe you can find 3 inches): T-H Marine Hi-Jacker Fixed Jack Plate


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  12. leaky

    leaky Captain

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    I guess worth pointing out as well - your bracket is fiberglass isn't it? Not much of a problem to drill and repair the old holes..

    Then secondly, you could see what you are running for props and see if they offer a larger diameter w/ a cup that's made for heavy boats, assuming what you have now is not that, but props get real pricey real quick with two if them - that's gonna be $1200 easy my guess.
     
  13. Billyclub

    Billyclub Senior Member

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    I can drop the motors one more notch if I drill a lower mounting bolt hole. I may do that instead of buying more re hardware.
    The bracket is aluminum. I also have the trim rod on the second hole. I will lower the trim rod to hole #1
     

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