“Discussions” with CAT

[Fishonnelsons]

Shhhhh the walls have ears.

Yes, I’m sure they do.

 

[Fishonnelsons]

Well, this past Tuesday CAT came out to the boat. After looking at the top of the engine, all sides of the “rocker” box on top of the engine box, their opinion was the oil was leaking from there, even from the front of the engine, flowing back aft, and down the starboard side. I am assuming when they say rocker box, they are referring to what the c12 parts manual calls the cylinder head, which is placed on top of the cylinder block. Anyways, they were going to disassemble and examine and go from their.

Opinions on high metal oil sample - really none, seemed to think it was more of a bad sample than anything else. Did say metals were slightly higher than normal over the previous 600 hours, and did jump significantly in last sample, but they didn’t give it much credence.

The boatyard called me around 1pm to ask what they had found, as they had packed up and left. Since they did not call me to update me, nor no calls yesterday to update me, I don’t have a frickin clue. So, I guess with my new hip I could have stood around in the freezing weather for 3 hours while they took it apart to see first hand what was found, or, as I did, could’ve have discussed it abit with them, and gone home to wait for their feedback, which I did.

 

[harpoon83]

Where I work, if we have a known "problem customer", not saying that you are a problem, my guys are to do their work and tell the customer that the office will be in touch and that they aren't involved in anything other than fixing things.

It really isn't the field tech's job to get into things other than fix the problem and let the office handle the rest.

In your case, perhaps the mechanic was told to not say much to you because the office is in the thick of things with you right now. SO if the mechanic says something that doesn't jive with the office's opinion then they are in hot water.

It helps alleviate an extra layer of " well your mechanic said this to me...", or "the mechanic said I should just get a new engine" when in reality someone much higher up than the field mechanic will make that decision.

Had you been in a better position to stick around and see what the guy did the entire time, you probably could have gotten more information out of the mechanic or even persuaded him to dig a little deeper into what's wrong.

Hopefully CAT will do the right thing, or at least A thing and help you out of your current situation.

 

[xbskt]

Where I work, if we have a known "problem customer", not saying that you are a problem, my guys are to do their work and tell the customer that the office will be in touch and that they aren't involved in anything other than fixing things.

It really isn't the field tech's job to get into things other than fix the problem and let the office handle the rest.

In your case, perhaps the mechanic was told to not say much to you because the office is in the thick of things with you right now. SO if the mechanic says something that doesn't jive with the office's opinion then they are in hot water.

It helps alleviate an extra layer of " well your mechanic said this to me...", or "the mechanic said I should just get a new engine" when in reality someone much higher up than the field mechanic will make that decision.

Had you been in a better position to stick around and see what the guy did the entire time, you probably could have gotten more information out of the mechanic or even persuaded him to dig a little deeper into what's wrong.

Hopefully CAT will do the right thing, or at least A thing and help you out of your current situation.

Agree completetly. My guys are told to tell the customer to call me but if it was me I would have been there the whole time with warm coffee, a smile and doughnuts, kept my mouth shut and learned as much as I could with my eyes even if their mouths weren't talking.
I work in cold every day so not a big deal to me but the stakes are high and they are guests on my boat so they would not have seen me leave until they were done.
Just me.
You get more bees...

 

[chortle]

Good to see there is some progress and that you have been able to keep your cool. It can't be easy. I am sure you are going nuts not being able to be there with the mechanics to see things first hand and ask some simple questions. Having some visibility further up the food chain helps in the long run but it can take time, hang in there.

 

[steveinak]

next time they come have a spy(security) camera hooked up no need to be there.

 

[Downrigga]

I fully expect that cat is going to do the right thing and stand by the warranty on this motor. Extending it two years is a show of good faith. Better days ahead.

 

[harpoon83]

They don't really have any choice other than to honor the current warranty, it comes down to what they are willing to do past that. That is a big unknown for such a large personal investment that has been made and the hard to get attitude that CAT is playing.

 

[Downrigga]

They don't really have any choice other than to honor the current warranty, it comes down to what they are willing to do past that. That is a big unknown for such a large personal investment that has been made and the hard to get attitude that CAT is playing.

I dont quite think cat has an attitude that i can see. They extended the warranty 2 years. They could have told him to go jump in a lake beyond the three year warranty but they didnt. I bet he gets a full written report of their recent visit or at least I hope he does.

 

[Fishonnelsons]

Where I work, if we have a known "problem customer", not saying that you are a problem, my guys are to do their work and tell the customer that the office will be in touch and that they aren't involved in anything other than fixing things.

It really isn't the field tech's job to get into things other than fix the problem and let the office handle the rest.

In your case, perhaps the mechanic was told to not say much to you because the office is in the thick of things with you right now. SO if the mechanic says something that doesn't jive with the office's opinion then they are in hot water.

It helps alleviate an extra layer of " well your mechanic said this to me...", or "the mechanic said I should just get a new engine" when in reality someone much higher up than the field mechanic will make that decision.

Had you been in a better position to stick around and see what the guy did the entire time, you probably could have gotten more information out of the mechanic or even persuaded him to dig a little deeper into what's wrong.

Hopefully CAT will do the right thing, or at least A thing and help you out of your current situation.

Agreed 100%. I clamored up the ladder with my new hip and we all spent about 10 minutes looking, chatting, discussing etc. As I said in the email this morning to the “office”, email/call me with what you found - as with the spotlight on this I think giving them 36 hours to do this was fair. I also said if you are planning to discuss issue more with CAT prior to communicating with me, that’s fine too, just let me know that. Communications dont have to have the final answer, but good business communications is to ensure all parties who are involved are brought up to speed.

But, I agree, the mechanics role is to work on it, the office normally relays options.

 

[harpoon83]

The "playing hard to get" attitude I was referring to was them dragging their feet during the process.
Shitty situation to be in, but CAT is smart enough to know that they have to at least honor their current agreement of the warranty.
Anything past that is a gift as far as they are concerned it seems.
I can't imagine being in the situation of "hoping" that your motor blows up within the next few years so that it is covered under that warranty.

Also, I have heard people saying not to put too much emphasis on oil samples, not here specifically, but just in general over the years here on the forum. This is usually in reference to a one-off sample.

Given that he has a history of samples to show the changes in metal content I would think that would hold some weight.

 

[harpoon83]

Agreed 100%. I clamored up the ladder with my new hip and we all spent about 10 minutes looking, chatting, discussing etc. As I said in the email this morning to the “office”, email/call me with what you found - as with the spotlight on this I think giving them 36 hours to do this was fair. I also said if you are planning to discuss issue more with CAT prior to communicating with me, that’s fine too, just let me know that. Communications dont have to have the final answer, but good business communications is to ensure all parties who are involved are brought up to speed.

And, I have no doubt I am being considered a ”problem” customer, but if I hadn’t had so many problems with the engine there would be no problem. Trust me, I’m not the only one fed up with my engine package, people with CAT hats on have expressed disappointment as well.

But, I agree, the mechanics role is to work on it, the office normally relays options.

I give you a lot of credit, most people would probably not be handling this so well.
Hopefully it pays off for you in the long run.

Having them come out and actually look at the engine is a step in the right direction at least.

 

[Fishonnelsons]

Agree completetly. My guys are told to tell the customer to call me but if it was me I would have been there the whole time with warm coffee, a smile and doughnuts, kept my mouth shut and learned as much as I could with my eyes even if their mouths weren't talking.
I work in cold every day so not a big deal to me but the stakes are high and they are guests on my boat so they would not have seen me leave until they were done.
Just me.
You get more bees...

I did offer coffee, but sorry, with a two week old new hip and crutches, at 67, I wasn’t standing around. We had a good chat, the path they were taking, it’s just the “well, what did you find”

 

[Fishonnelsons]

I fully expect that cat is going to do the right thing and stand by the warranty on this motor. Extending it two years is a show of good faith. Better days ahead.

Yes, it’s a good start, agreed. My only concern is if it shits the bed during the season I lose $1500/day revenue, and don’t get that back. Repairs are covered, but not all my fixed expenses.

 

[Genius]

Yes, it’s a good start, agreed. My only concern is if it shits the bed during the season I lose $1500/day revenue, and don’t get that back. Repairs are covered, but not all my fixed expenses.

understood. But can you even ask that of another new engine that was installed? Not just you, but any situation. Now, if it happens twice and revenue is lost...

 

[Downrigga]

Yes, it’s a good start, agreed. My only concern is if it shits the bed during the season I lose $1500/day revenue, and don’t get that back. Repairs are covered, but not all my fixed expenses.

That does suck for sure having that in the back of your mind always. Keep a sample of any oil you pull from the motor as you go forward and put a date on it.

 

[harpoon83]

Can you change your insurance to cover lost revenue? since it hasnt blown up yet your insurance company might let you upgrade your covereage

 

[Downrigga]

understood. But can you even ask that of another new engine that was installed? Not just you, but any situation. Now, if it happens twice and revenue is lost...

This one has a history though.

 

[Fishonnelsons]

I dont quite think cat has an attitude that i can see. They extended the warranty 2 years. They could have told him to go jump in a lake beyond the three year warranty but they didnt. I bet he gets a full written report of their recent visit or at least I hope he does.

FYI - only a 1 yr came with the engine, as it’s commercial use. They did offer to extend it 2 more years, but have the option to go to 4 years. I gave them detailed data that I lost over $12,000 last year due to cancelled charters. The 4 years warranty would cost them less than that. Tit for tat for customer satisfaction? And if the engines are so good, why not, what are they afraid of?

 

[Fishonnelsons]

Can you change your insurance to cover lost revenue? since it hasnt blown up yet your insurance company might let you upgrade your covereage

I have to look at that - if it costs me $1000 it might be worth it.m