38 Holland

[Tunascapes]

I was hoping to get some input from you guys on a potential boat I have been looking at. It is a late 80's 38 Holland, solid glass, that is currently set up to lobster. There is no sugar coating it this boat will be a project. The gunnel on the hauling side will need a little bit of love and I am pretty positive new decks and fresh paint are in its future. Having to do new decks is not really an issue because to have to boat set up to chase tuna to our needs we will need more fuel and then we can get the tanks under deck and will be good to go. It will also give us the possibility to add an in deck hold.

My next issue is power. Currently it has a 3208 with a trillion hours. Still runs and is functional but like the decks to have this boat set up to our needs/standards a repower will be needed. I guess the bottom line is if I were to have a 38ft boat I will no longer be catching a ride to georges and would be going on my own so I am even questioning if I want to do a rebuilt 3208 or go for a whole new power plant. From guys that have done this any insight of cost would be great.

The owner is looking for 50k with permits but I do not need to permits, as we have all of our own currently, plus I dont think he has a great history on them so the value is not that great.

Any input would be great. I am just having a hard time getting over this boat but I am not totally convinced it would be the best match for what I am looking for.

 

[CEShawn]

Whatever you do keep us apprised and submit pictures to this site!

I know nothing about the Hollands, actually went for a ride on one this week, but she was a 32.

I've been debating about picking up a project boat like that as I really enjoy working on the boat. You seem to have an understanding but with anything know that it is going to take more time and money than you can imagine.

The one thing that sits in the back of my mind was I had a H&H 40 that was setup for canyon fishing. The amount of time it took to make sure everything was always in running order was literally uncountable. Trust me, I'd never sway the course on anyone on this. Just have to remember when your 140 miles out, everything sits in the back of my mind, like who put on my prop last, how is that keyway? Should I have used a bigger backing plate on the sea cocks, etc. That is the good thing about starting a project like this you can do it your way. I have only called a mechanic once since 2002 and that was to get a Cat warranty item corrected. Knowing the boat made all the difference. Mind you I never fished George's because it wasn't going on then but I did fish way down on Lydonia canyon and other spots with my single screw. I wouldn't have it any other way, for now atleast.

Okay, so you can always play with the numbers but in 2005 we repowered our H&H 40 from a Mack E9 to Cat 3406E. That was completed at a marina on cape cod, that through a special channel, was able to do my own work and just used the yard for doing lifting etc, as long as I bought all my materials there. To do the job from top to bottom, the engine was $65,000 without a gear. The yard got about $5,000 and that was for miscellaneous parts, mind you all new hose's, bigger seacocks but also included travel lift, removing engine by crane, etc. In addition to that probably spent about $5,000 doing a new shaft, paying friends to do alignment, some custom parts being made. The brunt of the work was done by myself so that was labor free.

Years ago we had another cape cod marina replace a 454's with Yanmar 350HP, I was younger at the time and wasn't involved with it. I think that cost us about $20,000 and that was the yard doing everything after we supplied the engines, price in year 2000.

You are really stirring the pot with a new engine, either way. That new Caterpillar lasted three seasons and at 750 hours the oil pump failed and good bye engine. We sat two months trying to figure out who was going to pay for it, if it was going to be rebuilt or what. Finally we got a brand new Cat, that had a big turbo failure at 70hrs.

If you get a good engine good, if its questionable what is it worth?

I'd be very tempted to buy one of these old school Cummins that are rebuilt. The ease of getting parts and a few other things, i.e. before electronics...

Mind you this debate could go on forever!

 

[Tunascapes]

Thanks for the input. To be perfectly honest I really do have a good understanding of costs and offshore maintenance. I have made quite a few 100 plus mile runs and understand that what can go wrong will. I think this is why I am so hung up on if this is s good decision or not. I do have pretty high standards and just question whether that could be successfully achieved with that age of boat. Also I wonder if it might be a better decision to do a rebuilt motor that would be reliable instead of investing the type of money for a new power plant in that old of a boat.

I guess the other thing is I am not doing this to have a georges boat. I just know that if I do get a boat that size I will be tempted to go so why not plan ahead and for the project so the boat could be a canyon/100 plus mile run boat.

 

[tashmoo2]

Tunascapes,

Sounds like you already know you will ever get your money back on new engine.

I knew guy that seriously commercially fished NE canyons in a 38 ft Holland with 3208 in some pretty bad stuff. There was also a very good fisherman out of Montauk, who owned a 38 Holland. name will come to me after I send this. He passed away and boat was sold. I think it is good hull.

Rebuilt engines are always questionable because of how much was rebuilt and who did it. Check out the factory remanufactured Cummins mechanical governor engines. Around $30K with gear They have a good track record and you know they are basically new instead of 1/2 new.

You may pay $12-15k to rebuild the CAT and there are still parts on it with a trillion hours.

Use composites to keep weight down and carry more fuel instead.

CE Shawn: Did your boat have the tower on it and sportfisherman windows. It is one of the nicest H&H's

Good luck

 

[BillD]

I don't know much about a Holland 38 but I do know about Cummins RECON power.
The 6CTA 450 or 6C 480 C-E are really good engines. ALL new except for the factory rebuilt Borsch injection pump.

As long as you design the exhaust system correctly, prop the engine to 2700 rpm WOT with the boat loaded as heavy as you'll ever use it and maintain the aftercoolers and salt water cooling side of the engine diligently....you have very reliable power for years to come.

Just my 2cents.

Bill D

 

[DBM]

Considering you are looking at basically rebuilding the boat in the old Hull, have you thought about just buying a new hull from holland and building it right for you from the start. Is it really that much more expensive? What systems on the old boat would you leave intact and not replace?

Just a thought.

Good luck.

DBM

 

[Tunascapes]

Thanks for the input. I did do some looking into the cummins re-con and looks like it could be a decent way to go if this does move forward. We have done quite a bit a glass work over the years and have the experience to pull this project off so I think there will be a considerable savings by going with this hull. It may make sense to have a newer hull but we are pretty specialized in our needs so the changes to a base kit from the builder would be pretty substantial.

 

[MDI45]

Tunascapes,The guys name was Mike Brumm...the boats Name was Daybreaker....i was going to buy his jc he had befor the holland....he had a detroit in the holland..from what i heard his wife sold it for a real cheap price

Sounds like you already know you will ever get your money back on new engine.

I knew guy that seriously commercially fished NE canyons in a 38 ft Holland with 3208 in some pretty bad stuff. There was also a very good fisherman out of Montauk, who owned a 38 Holland. name will come to me after I send this. He passed away and boat was sold. I think it is good hull.

Rebuilt engines are always questionable because of how much was rebuilt and who did it. Check out the factory remanufactured Cummins mechanical governor engines. Around $30K with gear They have a good track record and you know they are basically new instead of 1/2 new.

You may pay $12-15k to rebuild the CAT and there are still parts on it with a trillion hours.

Use composites to keep weight down and carry more fuel instead.

CE Shawn: Did your boat have the tower on it and sportfisherman windows. It is one of the nicest H&H's

Good luck[/QUOTE]

 

[tashmoo2]

HI MDI145

I just could not remember "Daybeaker" Did he keep it at WESTLAKE?

 

[MDI45]

thats him...was a real nice guy

 

[CEShawn]

Yes we had that H&H 40 from 2002 until 2009. She was built for a North Carolina charter boat, Qualifier. Then an owner on Cape bought her for a year or so, then we got her, funny enough we ended up selling her back to the old owners son.

I've been toying around with the idea of building a boat but one thing that kills me is all the things you do not think about in regards to building it. Just sit on a website and put together deck hardware, screws and sealant and look at how much you come up with. There is an added value in a bit of buying an older boat and doing what you want to do. Yes you can get discounts being a builder but still some things amazed me.

I remember being in Montauk for the shark tournaments in June, always liked that boat DayBreaker. Was sad a few years ago, hell more than that now maybe, when that bar next to his boat changed into a more upscale bar or something. I always liked that salty bar, forget the name.

In regards to cost, its funny but I think there is something to say about an average for $1,000 for every foot to keep up with mainly the yearly expense. I always thought that it was high but listened to my Dad for years about this. Then I think he really is onto something mind you this is also me doing my work but look at how it works with prices of cape cod slips and needed new electronic's every few years in a sense. Yes some years you do not have it, some years you get a double dose with something.

 

[jnoon]

Anyone ever hear of any issues with the older balsa core Hollands?

 

[Tumblehome]

If I remember right, that boat started life as the BALL BREAKER. The new owners showed up at the Boothbay Harbor boat races (early 90's?) with G. Holland (the boat was just launched). Glenn raced the boat, and then the owners continued south. A 6-92 Detroit for power if I remember correctly.

 

[GoodChance]

Cost me $16k to completely rebuild a 3208t and the TD506 transmission. All the diesel mechanics I spoke to said "a rebuilt diesel is virtually the same as a brand new one".

One of my commercial fishing buddies has the same engine and he has 23,000hrs on her and still going strong.