38' Hull- Which one??

[Powderpro]

I'm going to order a hull this week! It's a tough decision, because every hull I'm considering is built by a quality builder and each hull has it's positives and negatives. I think I've narrowed the hulls down to the Wesmac, Flowers, Holland, and Libby. Each of these 38's would fit the bill for my purpose.

The 38 Holland is attractive because it pushes easy, cheapest in price, very popular and proven design, 12'10" beam is cheaper to transport than the 13'+ beam boats, runs at a flat angle, and although it's skeg-built, it's design seems like it would deliver the softest ride of the skeg boats. So it's high on my list.

38 Wesmac is a killer looking hull, hard chines (a bonus in my book), 12'8" beam is cheaper to transport, looks to deliver a soft ride, high quality, well known design, most expensive of the bunch. Probably real stable with those chines. I'm wondering if it will hit 24-25 knots with 500hp??

38 Flowers is a sweet design, priced right, Ken Flowers is a good guy, high quality, and would probably push pretty easy for a built down, soft riding hull. The 2 negatives for me on the Flowers is it needs lifting rails (more money and holes in the hull), and at 13'6" beam, a little more spendy to transport cross-country. But it is a sweet boat and has always been in the top 3 on my list.

38 Libby- High quality work from Stewart, pushes easy, 13' beam so transportation is a little less, but would probably ride the roughest in the big seas. But it's a nice looking hull and would probably fly along with 500hp.


I'm glad choosing the engine was so easy; John Deere 9 liter 500hp w/ZF305a gear, 2:1 reduction. Looking to spin a 28" diameter prop, hoping for top speeds of 24-26 knots.

Advice or opinions are appreciated, private message me if you want. Thanks.

 

[coddock]

37 Duffy finished by Cape and Island Boats...and never look back!

 

[Hooper]

37 Duffy finished by Cape and Island Boats...and never look back!

That's great advise right there...

Having said that, I also love the Northern Bay 38, I think the lines are incredible. And it has been designed to cruise in the mid-20's since inception.

My buddy has a Duffy 37 with a Yanmar 500 and he gets in the mid 20's for a cruise, that is a very efficient hull.

Good luck, wish I had that decision to make!

 

[BillD]

37 Duffy finished by Cape and Island Boats...and never look back!

That's great advise right there...

Having said that, I also love the Northern Bay 38, I think the lines are incredible. And it has been designed to cruise in the mid-20's since inception.

My buddy has a Duffy 37 with a Yanmar 500 and he gets in the mid 20's for a cruise, that is a very efficient hull.

Good luck, wish I had that decision to make!

Ah, not sure if you guys know powderpro and his dad.
They've done their homework. They'll choose a hull from the above list.

I'm guessing they'll be hauling/or having it hauled, the bare ass hull out to the midwest or Washington state and building it themselves.

No top of course.

 

[F/V First Team]

Shame the Northern Bay didn't make the list, if I were looking for a 38 it would be at the top of my list. An engine box on a 38 seems foolish. That's all I have to say.

 

[lobstercatcher]

I'm going to order a hull this week! It's a tough decision, because every hull I'm considering is built by a quality builder and each hull has it's positives and negatives. I think I've narrowed the hulls down to the Wesmac, Flowers, Holland, and Libby. Each of these 38's would fit the bill for my purpose.

The 38 Holland is attractive because it pushes easy, cheapest in price, very popular and proven design, 12'10" beam is cheaper to transport than the 13'+ beam boats, runs at a flat angle, and although it's skeg-built, it's design seems like it would deliver the softest ride of the skeg boats. So it's high on my list.

38 Wesmac is a killer looking hull, hard chines (a bonus in my book), 12'8" beam is cheaper to transport, looks to deliver a soft ride, high quality, well known design, most expensive of the bunch. Probably real stable with those chines. I'm wondering if it will hit 24-25 knots with 500hp??

38 Flowers is a sweet design, priced right, Ken Flowers is a good guy, high quality, and would probably push pretty easy for a built down, soft riding hull. The 2 negatives for me on the Flowers is it needs lifting rails (more money and holes in the hull), and at 13'6" beam, a little more spendy to transport cross-country. But it is a sweet boat and has always been in the top 3 on my list.

38 Libby- High quality work from Stewart, pushes easy, 13' beam so transportation is a little less, but would probably ride the roughest in the big seas. But it's a nice looking hull and would probably fly along with 500hp.


I'm glad choosing the engine was so easy; John Deere 9 liter 500hp w/ZF305a gear, 2:1 reduction. Looking to spin a 28" diameter prop, hoping for top speeds of 24-26 knots.

Advice or opinions are appreciated, private message me if you want. Thanks.

Depends what you are going to do with it?

If you plan on buying a boat based soley on what it will cost to transport it... How about a canoe 38? its only got a 4 foot beam!

How about the big 38 Calvin beal model? It is a more of a work boat IMO and you probably would be better off with a helper on board but it is big for 38'

 

[lobstercatcher]

Shame the Northern Bay didn't make the list, if I were looking for a 38 it would be at the top of my list. An engine box on a 38 seems foolish. That's all I have to say.

Is that what you are finishing these days? The NB38?

 

[F/V First Team]

We finish whatever the customer wants but we are very familiar with the Northern Bay line. Done the 25, 28, 36 and 38 models and of course our 42 which we let John use for a while.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Great problem to have. Wish it were mine. Hopefully it will be, in a few years.

IF I did have this problem, knowing where I'd be keeping the boat and what I'd be doing with it---couldn't see myself with a skeg boat. Prob 75% of the time I'd be steaming into the teeth of at least a 2-4 ft chop for about 7 miles--and that's before hitting the open ocean. Also I'm with Travis on the engine box thing.

That being said, I understand the cost/benefit issue and what function this boat is going to be used for. My function will be quite different than yours. Just my .02.

 

[Powderpro]

Thanks for the replies, although some of them were not all that helpful, especially the 38' canoe comment. I've considered and personally looked at practically every DE boat in the 34' - 42' range, and for various reasons that would take too long to fully explain, I've narrowed it down to my short list.

There are certain things that I have to take into consideration that most builders of DE boats do not have to deal with.

1. Transportation... the wider, heavier, bigger, the more it costs me to transport. This boat will travel 3,000 miles over land before it hits the water, then will travel another 1,500 miles by sea. I would be getting a 46' Wesmac if transportation costs were not an issue. Even a few inches extra in width can add significantly to transportation costs. If highway patrol checks your permits and measures your boat, they better agree and you better have hired enough pilot cars. Towing a large boat 3,000 miles is a little stressful to say the least. So width of the hull is a big consideration for me. That's why I tend to favor a little more narrow boat like the Holland or Wesmac.

2. Draft... the river my boat is moored in can be real shallow at low tide. This area has up to 30 ft. tides, so draft is a big deal. The Holland and Wesmac have slightly smaller apetures than some of the others, so even though it may be only a few inches less, those few inches could be the difference between being stuck on a sand bar or not.

3. Head sea ride and speed. Some days I need to travel over 100 miles in 1 day, so speed and comfort are high on the list.


I liked the 37 Duffy, but it's almost 2' ft shorter than some of it's competition (like Wesmac and Lowell Bros.) and I've tried a few times to get a quote on a hull and never heard back... so the Duffy ain't in the running, although it is a very nice boat.

38' NB is also nice and it's always been in my top 5, but in my humble opinion the Flowers is better for my use and a little cheaper...so NB is kind of out. John is a great guy and has a great boat, but for my use, there are a few better choices out there.

38' Calvin is way too large for me...would cost too much money to build/transport/power, etc. If I was going 15' wide, I would get a 42' boat.

First Team- Engine boxes are foolish to me also... my work deck and cabin floor are 8"-12" above the engine, so no boxes on my boat.

Bill is correct, my father and I do everything on the boat, including the transporting.

 

[tunaorlater]

Powder, Post a pic of your 34 CB so guys get an idea on what you are building. Are you planning to keep this one or is resale an important thing? If it is I recomend spending the extra coin on the Wesmac because the name alone means alot. Besides that the only one I don't like the looks of is the Libby. The Holland is probably the sexiest and the flowers is probably the best ride IMO.

 

[Surfishingboy]

northern bay or wes mac and never look back......

 

[lobstercatcher]

Thanks for the replies, although some of them were not all that helpful, especially the 38' canoe comment. I've considered and personally looked at practically every DE boat in the 34' - 42' range, and for various reasons that would take too long to fully explain, I've narrowed it down to my short list.

There are certain things that I have to take into consideration that most builders of DE boats do not have to deal with.

1. Transportation... the wider, heavier, bigger, the more it costs me to transport. This boat will travel 3,000 miles over land before it hits the water, then will travel another 1,500 miles by sea. I would be getting a 46' Wesmac if transportation costs were not an issue. Even a few inches extra in width can add significantly to transportation costs. If highway patrol checks your permits and measures your boat, they better agree and you better have hired enough pilot cars. Towing a large boat 3,000 miles is a little stressful to say the least. So width of the hull is a big consideration for me. That's why I tend to favor a little more narrow boat like the Holland or Wesmac.

2. Draft... the river my boat is moored in can be real shallow at low tide. This area has up to 30 ft. tides, so draft is a big deal. The Holland and Wesmac have slightly smaller apetures than some of the others, so even though it may be only a few inches less, those few inches could be the difference between being stuck on a sand bar or not.

especially the 38' canoe comment


I liked the 37 Duffy, but it's almost 2' ft shorter than some of it's competition (like Wesmac and Lowell Bros.) and I've tried a few times to get a quote on a hull and never heard back... so the Duffy ain't in the running, although it is a very nice boat.

38' NB is also nice and it's always been in my top 5, but in my humble opinion the Flowers is better for my use and a little cheaper...so NB is kind of out. John is a great guy and has a great boat, but for my use, there are a few better choices out there.

38' Calvin is way too large for me...would cost too much money to build/transport/power, etc. If I was going 15' wide, I would get a 42' boat.

First Team- Engine boxes are foolish to me also... my work deck and cabin floor are 8"-12" above the engine, so no boxes on my boat.

Bill is correct, my father and I do everything on the boat, including the transporting.

"especially the 38' canoe comment"

I really didn't think you would concider one but I threw it out there anyway.

For steaming distance, you probably aren't going to beat a NB 38 for ride and effeciency. I only have 40k+ hrs standing on Downeasters and still don't know what you mean about steaming level. What is this all you speek of and why is it a concern?

 

[F/V First Team]

A flat ride perhaps? Keeping that nose down while still making good headway

 

[lobstercatcher]

A flat ride perhaps? Keeping that nose down while still making good headway

Thats what it would seam but, Wouldn't a person want the bow up a little in snotty weather or do people like to have the bow level and have water flying up and over?

I'd rather have the bow raise a little for comfort etc . But I know others might like the wetness.

 

[Powderpro]

Tuna- I'm building to keep for a while, I'm not super interested in resale value. Right now I would say I would keep the boat at least 10 yrs. The fact is, all these hulls would probably make me very happy. I just like hearing everyone's experiences and opinions and it's kind of fun to shop around. I hate shopping for anything else, but when it comes to boats, it's different. I would probably be 100% Wesmac, but I've heard (true or not true I don't know?) that they are slower than the other hulls. Of course they will be slower than a Calvin design, but how much slower? I don't know for sure. It's hard some times to know when people are speaking the truth from actual experience, or if they are passing along rumors, hearsay, and half-truths. If I knew a Wesmac would do an honest 24-25 knots wide open with the 500hp Deere, then we may not be having this conversation. Any boat I build will weigh about what a commercial lobster boat would weigh. I like light weight and speed. My CB 34 with 500 Cummins felt like a rocket.

Lobstercatcher- I know the NB38 is a fast and efficient boat, and would probably fly with 500hp. But to be super honest, I wasn't impressed with the bow design, especially compared to the Flowers. That's my opinion, and it may be erroneous, but the NB bow is just too small/narrow for my liking. When I have 10,000 - 15,000 lbs of salmon on board, I want some lift from my bow. And the Flowers in my opinion will provide more lift in the bow area than the NB. I've looked at all these boats in person, in the builder's shops. I've personally met all the builders and really enjoyed my time with them. The 2 most impressive boats to me were the Wesmac and Flowers. But I'm considering others just to make it interesting.

I'm not sure where you are getting the "steaming level"... did I use that phrase? If I did, I don't recall it. My interpretation of "steaming level" would be similar to First Teams.

Thanks again for all your input.

 

[lobstercatcher]

Tuna- I'm building to keep for a while, I'm not super interested in resale value. Right now I would say I would keep the boat at least 10 yrs. The fact is, all these hulls would probably make me very happy. I just like hearing everyone's experiences and opinions and it's kind of fun to shop around. I hate shopping for anything else, but when it comes to boats, it's different. I would probably be 100% Wesmac, but I've heard (true or not true I don't know?) that they are slower than the other hulls. Of course they will be slower than a Calvin design, but how much slower? I don't know for sure. It's hard some times to know when people are speaking the truth from actual experience, or if they are passing along rumors, hearsay, and half-truths. If I knew a Wesmac would do an honest 24-25 knots wide open with the 500hp Deere, then we may not be having this conversation. Any boat I build will weigh about what a commercial lobster boat would weigh. I like light weight and speed. My CB 34 with 500 Cummins felt like a rocket.

Lobstercatcher- I know the NB38 is a fast and efficient boat, and would probably fly with 500hp. But to be super honest, I wasn't impressed with the bow design, especially compared to the Flowers. That's my opinion, and it may be erroneous, but the NB bow is just too small/narrow for my liking. When I have 10,000 - 15,000 lbs of salmon on board, I want some lift from my bow. And the Flowers in my opinion will provide more lift in the bow area than the NB. I've looked at all these boats in person, in the builder's shops. I've personally met all the builders and really enjoyed my time with them. The 2 most impressive boats to me were the Wesmac and Flowers. But I'm considering others just to make it interesting.

I'm not sure where you are getting the "steaming level"... did I use that phrase? If I did, I don't recall it. My interpretation of "steaming level" would be similar to First Teams.

Thanks again for all your input.

The last boat you finished looked and went great so I know you have to concider a lot for your projects. The fine lower area of the Nb38 at the bow is the reason for the nice ride in nasty weather. It cuts easy. The fullness above makes the real nasty stuff a breeze too. The slight rise of the bow make for great visability and create a great entry angle for cutting sea. I wouldn't know how much weight the boat would hold for a load but it would have to be a lot! I am thinking of adding weight to mine in the form of under deck holding tanks. I don't think I'll be doing it soon though so I wouldn't be able to say " the more weight the better or whatever i might think about more weight. Are you going to post a build again?

 

[Powderpro]

Here are some pics of my 34 CB. This was the first boat I ever built... and maybe the fastest.

Notice in the 1st pic, the scuppers are close to the top of the hull. The work deck is roughly 5" below the top of the hull, this tall deck allows for maximum fish hold capacity. On my next boat, I may lower the back deck 2"-4" from where the Calvin's deck was. Also notice how tall the trunk was; in my quest to build the cabin as tall as possible, the trunk ended up too tall and bulky. My next boat's cabin will have very similar lines, but the trunk will be about 8"-12" lower in height.

2nd pic shows the work deck. Those diamond plate aluminum hatches cover the fish holds. I figured you could put about 14,000 lbs of salmon underneath the covers...not a bad days fishing.

3rd pic shows it cruising along; top speed at sea trials was 33 mph. I was happy with that speed. Could have possibly been a touch faster with a 28" diameter prop, but we went with a 26" and 1.77:1 trans ratio. Also notice I did not install lifting rails. Calvin speculated that the lifting rails may have added about 1 knot in speed.

4th pic is a drawing of my proposed boat on a 38 Wesmac hull. The drawing of the hull is from Wesmac, I erased their cabin and drew my own using similar lines and style as my 34 CB.

 

[Blitzen]

Powder,
Good luck with your decision it can be tough one. I understand your concern about the lifting rails and holes in the bottom, when we built my boat I felt the same way. Over time they get broken by trailers and travel lifts even though you tell the operators about them.
So David and Ken glassed mine on with no holes in the bottom, this way if you should hit anything and break the rail there are no bolt holes to leak.
We also used foam instead of PVC. Just a thought.
Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[tashmoo2]

Powder Pro,

Just curious what you elminiate the Lowell 38'. I think they are all nice but am partial to the Flowers and Lowell designs.