3m 4200 vs titebond

fadetoblack188

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What’s up guys looking for some advice. Making/installing new rub rails on my dory. The rails are white oak.

Should I use titebond or 3m 4200 between the pieces of wood and between the fiberglass and wood?

I was thinking titebond between the two wood 1x1’ then 4200 between the wood and glass on either side.

thoughts? B0CDDB48-D36D-46A7-9DA0-A7ACEDB84F34.jpeg B0CDDB48-D36D-46A7-9DA0-A7ACEDB84F34.jpeg
 

fadetoblack188

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Ugh looks like I have to hold off on this for a bit. I don’t have a high enough temperature at night still for curing the glues
 

Brooksie

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Genius is right, epoxy is the right stuff. Any good epoxy really, prime the wood w/ unthickened, thicken it w/ glass or cotton fibers, butter it on, then clamp or screw your pieces on one at a time. Alternate sides to avoid distortion maybe.
 

fadetoblack188

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The west systems six 10 epoxy looks easy enough. No mixing or measuring really. Goes on like caulk. Anyone use the west systems six 10
 

Brooksie

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Six-ten would be great. Expensive but great. I mentioned fiberous fillers b/c they do not distroy the flexibility of the epoxy like silica does. I don't know what 6-10 has for fillers.
 

Genius

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never used it, but it does sound like it matches your needs. Below is from their website:

The physical properties of WEST SYSTEM Six10 were developed to ensure good adhesion in many applications. The charts above illustrate the properties of our G/flex and 105 Resin-based epoxies compared to WEST SYSTEM Six10 and illustrates how Six10 fits in nicely between the high strength of 105 Resin-based combinations and the toughness of G/flex. As we discussed in Epoxyworks 25, G/flex was formulated to be flexible enough to work in many unique situations but 105 Resin-based epoxies are still recommended for applications where a stiff laminate is required. WEST SYSTEM Six10 has a modulus slightly lower than a 105 Resin epoxy, making it appropriate for many applications where a filled a 105 Resin-based epoxy would be used. When G/flex is used to laminate lightweight fiberglass cloth, the result is a flexible laminate. Six10 will create a fiberglass laminate much closer to 105 Resin epoxy laminate properties. Six10 will wet out fabrics up to 12 oz per sq yd. For heavier fabrics, a 105 Resin-based epoxy with its low viscosity should be used to ensure thorough fabric wet out.
 

fadetoblack188

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Should I glue one piece at a time and let it dry?

before glueing next piece on. Will the epoxy hold the wood enough after it cures on those strong bends after I remove the clamps with no screws yet?

then after all three layers glued and cured put the screws in?
 

Genius

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epoxy has very strong grip. It will hold better than the screw most likely. Yes, needs to be cured before releasing the clamps. I understood that 40 degrees was the minimum cure temperature for 105 epoxy with the fast cure hardener.
 

leaky

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If the surface isn't going to get gummed up acetone is the go to. If the surface is something where you might potentially soften if then alcohol.

Most products are made to work at around 70 degrees but I don't think epoxy or 4200, regardless of what temp they want you to run them in, do anything except extend the cure times provided we are talking temperatures > freezing (below freezing is weird because any moisture involved actually freezes). The problem arises when you take the clamps off after a week and your project falls apart because the adhesive isn't done doing it's thing yet.

Throwing a tarp over the area with a little electric heater under it will also take the sting out of the night temperatures, for instance even if it dips to 20 you can probably make it so your parts stay in the high 30's with just a small $25 heater.

System III gelmagic is good stuff and you can get empty caulking tubes to fill if you want to shoot it in a clean manner. Cure time with that stuff at ~60 degrees is it seems to gel in about 1 hour 20 minutes, is a lot slower than advertised but I bet at 70 degrees it is probably waaay faster.
 

Brooksie

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Should I glue one piece at a time and let it dry?

before glueing next piece on. Will the epoxy hold the wood enough after it cures on those strong bends after I remove the clamps with no screws yet?

then after all three layers glued and cured put the screws in?
Glue up one layer at a time port & stbd with as many clamps as you have. Add second layer after that is cured. No need for screws at all really but if you want them, screw all layers at once to save work and screws. If you don't have enough clamps, then clamp and screw as you go.
 

NewEnglander

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I’m going to second the epoxy recommendation. West System is the gold standard when it comes to wood/epoxy boat construction. Cost and cure time notwithstanding, proper wood/epoxy application provides superior adhesion, tensile strength, and longevity. For anyone interested to learn more, check out the West System website for product explanations and download the Gougeon Brothers book on boat construction. You can also check out this video series from OffCenter Harbor narrated by Geoff Kerr from Two Daughters Boatworks as he builds a Calendonia Yawl.

I highly recommend this video for anyone interested to learn more about West System;

 
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leaky

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I’m going to second the epoxy recommendation. West System is the gold standard when it comes to wood/epoxy boat construction. Cost and cure time notwithstanding, proper wood/epoxy application provides superior adhesion, tensile strength, and longevity. For anyone interested to learn more, check out the West System website for product explanations and download the Gougeon Brothers book on boat construction. You can also check out this video series from OffCenter Harbor narrated by Geoff Kerr from Two Daughters Boatworks as he builds a Calendonia Yawl.

I highly recommend this video for anyone interested to learn more about West System;


There's no doubt epoxy is the best glue and all that but System III is a professionally chosen one too.

West System definitely has more marketing hype than anyone else.

As far as the gold standard it depends if you want a 5:1 (West System) or 2:1 (System III), or where you shop. Seems like many places carry only one or the other.

I like the pre-loaded guns they sell for West System as a glue, but then if I'm going to mix it myself I prefer the 2:1 route and would choose System III Silvertip for general laminating purposes. For me I've used both and most of the time it just comes down to what I can get a better deal on at the moment, both are great.
 
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