45 Young Brothers new build, power opinions

sam207

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A close friend of mine has been taking rides on different downeast hulls for the last few months. He has sea trialed a 44' calvin, 46 Wesmac, 42 Muscle Ridge, and a bunch of others. After weighing all the options he finally decided to pull the trigger on a 45 Young Brothers. I think he takes delivery of the hull in about a month, no top as he's going to build his own. This is his second young brothers build and is selling his 35 at the end of his new build. He asked me to get some ideas on power. The three choices he's looking at are the 13.5 L deere 750hp, The d13 Scania 700hp (I believe) and he also has a line on a completely rebuilt Cat C18 Twin Turbo. Providing they are all roughly the same cost wise ( within 10-15k) of each other, which would you go with and why ?, any experience with any of these, good bad, ugly ? The boat will be fishing year round for lobster out of Boothbay Harbor. He is hoping for a solid 18-20 knot cruise and at least 25 on top, while trying to stay as efficient as possible. Hope to get some good build photos starting at the mid-end of summer.

I know this may be a question better asked on Boat diesel but figured I'd ask around.

Thanks in advance,
Sam
 

FPTMarineDiesel

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A close friend of mine has been taking rides on different downeast hulls for the last few months. He has sea trialed a 44' calvin, 46 Wesmac, 42 Muscle Ridge, and a bunch of others. After weighing all the options he finally decided to pull the trigger on a 45 Young Brothers. I think he takes delivery of the hull in about a month, no top as he's going to build his own. This is his second young brothers build and is selling his 35 at the end of his new build. He asked me to get some ideas on power. The three choices he's looking at are the 13.5 L deere 750hp, The d13 Scania 700hp (I believe) and he also has a line on a completely rebuilt Cat C18 Twin Turbo. Providing they are all roughly the same cost wise ( within 10-15k) of each other, which would you go with and why ?, any experience with any of these, good bad, ugly ? The boat will be fishing year round for lobster out of Boothbay Harbor. He is hoping for a solid 18-20 knot cruise and at least 25 on top, while trying to stay as efficient as possible. Hope to get some good build photos starting at the mid-end of summer.

I know this may be a question better asked on Boat diesel but figured I'd ask around.

Thanks in advance,
Sam
As far as I am aware, the C18 rebuilt cannot be installed in a new build production boat due to emissions requirements. You could install this engine in a repower application but a new build is not allowed. The 750 hp JD is only a 300 hour per year duty cycle rating and is also as far as I am aware the last time I spoke with the marine application engineer only recreational certified not commerical Tier 2 EPA certified so that would also be illegal. The Scania seems to be an unkown for the 13L as it is fairly new to the market. Have you thought about the FPT Cursor 13 or has he? We have many Cursor 13 engines out there and have had for 6-7 years with strong reliability in this type of application. The C13 is also 750 hp commercial EPA Tier 2 compliant and is very good on fuel. Shant Hatch (F/V Jill Cayden) has one in a 44' Calvin Beal and he races in the summer months and does 27.5 knots WOT with a C13 750 hp engine. You may also know Lisa Marie (Gary Genthner) who also races and he has a 700 hp C13 in his boat, I believe he wins his class every year since he has owned it.

I have a dealer in Yarmouth in Yankee Marina and the technician working there following the FPT product is from Boothbay. Jerry Farnham is his name. Also, we have a dealer in Rockland as well in Journey's End Marina and their technician is very familiar with the product from training and sea trials and some service work. We are running special pricing too for March due to the Fisherman's Forum and the Maine Boat Builders Show.

Maybe this would also be a viable option? Thanks.
 

Powderpro

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Sam- In my opinion and as far as I know, Peter is correct on his evaluation of the engine options you have. The JD 13.5 is 650hp in a commercial application, not 750hp. If it were me, I would look at the JD 13.5 liter 650hp, the Iveco C13 750hp, and the Volvo D13 700hp. Even though the JD seems down on hp at 650, it is only a 2,100 rpm engine, so it's making a lot of torque and would probably deliver a similar cruise speed as the Volvo 700hp and Iveco 750hp engines. I don't know what the price of the Iveco 750hp is, but I can tell you that I very recently got quotes on the Volvo 700 and John Deere 650, and the Volvo was about $6,000 less than the JD.
 
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sam207

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FPTMarineDiesel

Thanks for the insight, I know I had read somewhere about the new emission regulations but I was not aware that the C18 was not in compliance. I hadnt really considered the cursor but now that you mention it he did say he was looking into an Iveco, deffinitely something to think about, I will relay that to him. Funny thing I do know Jerry Farnham, I went stern man for his father every year while I was in high high school. Both Fred and Jerry are really good folks. As a matter of fact I believe Jerry's father Fred will most likely be helping out at various stages of this new build as he did on the previous boat he built. You are right also with the specs on the deere, not sure why I was thinking the 750, I think he may actually even be looking at the next step down from the 650 aswell, I believe its the 575 13.5l as an option.

Powderpro - I hear what you are saying about the Deere making lots of torque lower in the RPM band, He is actually deere person and currently has a 375 deere in his boat. His fathers got a 525 deere in his 40' YB right now. He really likes the deeres but thinks their kind of thirsty and wanted to research some other options. I was hoping to get some good feedback on here and send him a link to the thread

Thanks
 

WoundUpMarine

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33youngbrothers

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He is hoping for a solid 18-20 knot cruise and at least 25 on top, while trying to stay as efficient as possible.
Thanks in advance,
Sam

I'm not sure about cruise speeds but my father has a e7 mack in his cored yb45 that's built pretty light and she did 28 knots when we launched it.

Is he getting a cored or solid glass boat? And what's he using for material for the cabin?
 

Reelin

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OK stupid question?

If I am building my own boat in my yard, with a hull I have purchased, then why can't I put any engine I want in it?

I could understand a manufacturer or a boat yard not installing a non-compliant engine.
 

FPTMarineDiesel

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FPTMarineDiesel

Thanks for the insight, I know I had read somewhere about the new emission regulations but I was not aware that the C18 was not in compliance. I hadnt really considered the cursor but now that you mention it he did say he was looking into an Iveco, deffinitely something to think about, I will relay that to him. Funny thing I do know Jerry Farnham, I went stern man for his father every year while I was in high high school. Both Fred and Jerry are really good folks. As a matter of fact I believe Jerry's father Fred will most likely be helping out at various stages of this new build as he did on the previous boat he built. You are right also with the specs on the deere, not sure why I was thinking the 750, I think he may actually even be looking at the next step down from the 650 aswell, I believe its the 575 13.5l as an option.

Powderpro - I hear what you are saying about the Deere making lots of torque lower in the RPM band, He is actually deere person and currently has a 375 deere in his boat. His fathers got a 525 deere in his 40' YB right now. He really likes the deeres but thinks their kind of thirsty and wanted to research some other options. I was hoping to get some good feedback on here and send him a link to the thread

Thanks
Hello Sam,

Thanks for the write back. Kennedy Marine just repowered a 45' Young Brothers that had an E9 Mack in it for quite some time. THe customer is very happy with the repower as I understand. The boat did 25-26 knots WOT and has a 20-21 knot cruise with 750 Mhp C13 and I believe a 2.19:1 gear. If you like or if the potential customer would like please give Roger or Angela a call up there and speak with them. They have the sea trial report and can share the information and specs with the customer or you if you like. I don't think that there is a known weight on the hull any longer but LWL and speeds along with power and ratio will tell you what you need to know. Obviously I am the territory manager and will push my product but I can tell you that if the potential customer is concerned about fuel consumption and he should be, the Cursor products are very efficient and I can point you to 99% of our customers and all of them have one thing to say: "I can't believe the fuel economy of this engine, especially for the power output". I hear it all the time and the dealers will tell you the same.

Thanks,

Peter
 

FPTMarineDiesel

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OK stupid question?

If I am building my own boat in my yard, with a hull I have purchased, then why can't I put any engine I want in it?

I could understand a manufacturer or a boat yard not installing a non-compliant engine.
The EPA and State DEP have regulations to follow, and if you are building a new hull the law is that the engine going into that hull has to be EPA Tier level compliant for the year of the build of the boat. If you are repowering the boat then the engine replacing the existing engine has to be compliant for the year of the boat or better. There was a one time owner build exclusion where you could put a used or non-compliant engine into a new hull if the owner himself was finishing the boat but this exclusion has expired as far as I am aware. For answers to these questions in even more detail, Lynn Cayting at the Maine State DEP can answer the questions for anyone and will gladly have a discussion with anyone that is a state resident I am sure.

Now, I will say that there is not a lot of enforcement on this and the risk if you so choose is yours to have, but legaly it is as I state.

Regards,

Peter
 

Powderpro

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Like Peter said, the risk of getting caught will be on you. And if you do install a non-compliant engine in a new boat, good luck selling the boat in the future. With the high overall cost and investment of a new boat, spend the money on a compliant engine, do it right the first time, and know that you are abiding by the law. And when you go to sell it, you won't have anything to hide.
 

tunaorlater

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OK stupid question?

If I am building my own boat in my yard, with a hull I have purchased, then why can't I put any engine I want in it?

I could understand a manufacturer or a boat yard not installing a non-compliant engine.

Because it is illegal, but so is driving over 65mph. As a sr. Member of this board has said "there's no engine police"
 

FPTMarineDiesel

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Because it is illegal, but so is driving over 65mph. As a sr. Member of this board has said "there's no engine police"
Very true, although that is supposed to be the Marine Patrol and Coast Guard responsibility but very seldom ever get's checked. It was purely just information, I have been down this road and it is a windy road for certain and the risk is like any other. Nothing personal.
 

sam207

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What about a lugger?
lugger was an original idea aswell. not sure if they are epa compliant.I also wanto say they are mechanical inj. The new deeres ivecos and most of the others now run common rail or in the scanias case electronic unit inject. But i have heard really good things reliabilty wise about the luggers. i worked on a rug for a while that had 700 luggers in it. couldnt believe how easy it was to diasseble the motor with the individual cyl heads. I think the obsession runs a hopped up lugger or did at least
 

sam207

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Sam, this is john from the harbor, The new 45 is gonna be sweet!! tell him to put the c18 in it and turn her up to a 1000hp!
john, good to meet a familiar face on the board. it is going to be a sweet build. you'll prob get to see it before i do. im leaving for seattle in may to do my co-op this summer with Foss. Nicks gona build his own top, all composite. I have a feeling there wont be much wood at all in the boat, probably alot of coosa and corecell. Hes been itiching to build a boat like this since right after he splashed the illusion. I tried hard to sway him to the c18. Its the twin turbo 1150 hp model. Minot redid the whole thing after it came out of one of Clemens wesmacs
 

sam207

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I'm not sure about cruise speeds but my father has a e7 mack in his cored yb45 that's built pretty light and she did 28 knots when we launched it.

Is he getting a cored or solid glass boat? And what's he using for material for the cabin?
Those are good numbers. the macks always seem to run hard. I got to climb around on starlight express a cpl years ago. simply unbelivable. its to bad parts are so hard to find for them.

to answer your question its a solid glass hull

Bestfish - pretty sure the MTU's are OMG expensive. they are fast tho. look out runs one here in boothbay
 

sam207

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Hello Sam,

Thanks for the write back. Kennedy Marine just repowered a 45' Young Brothers that had an E9 Mack in it for quite some time. THe customer is very happy with the repower as I understand. The boat did 25-26 knots WOT and has a 20-21 knot cruise with 750 Mhp C13 and I believe a 2.19:1 gear. If you like or if the potential customer would like please give Roger or Angela a call up there and speak with them. They have the sea trial report and can share the information and specs with the customer or you if you like. I don't think that there is a known weight on the hull any longer but LWL and speeds along with power and ratio will tell you what you need to know. Obviously I am the territory manager and will push my product but I can tell you that if the potential customer is concerned about fuel consumption and he should be, the Cursor products are very efficient and I can point you to 99% of our customers and all of them have one thing to say: "I can't believe the fuel economy of this engine, especially for the power output". I hear it all the time and the dealers will tell you the same.

Thanks,

Peter
Thats exactly the kind of info I was looking for, He really has no reason to go with anything but a deere because they have been pretty good to him so far. His current boat has 9600 hrs on it and is fishing year round. Im going to tell him to call and get a quote while the march sale is still going on, and hopefully he can get some burn/spd numbers when he does, maybe even go for a ride if possible. His primary reason for considering something different is in the hopes that he can burn abit less fuel, which sounds lie that may be a big plus for the cursor.

Thanks again.
 

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