Airmar transducer

greg

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The b265 is an airmar transducer for chirp sounders. When I asked what brand, I meant what brand of electronics. I'm curious if anyone is going to give the new furuno a try.
 

tunafishhkg

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I am also going to put a B265C chirp transducer in this yr for my FCV1100 since it will perform much better even on pulse mode. With all the new features comming out, especially wifi, I am going to wait a yr before going full chirp. The B265C chirp transducers made by Airmar, being a new down scaled design, should not change for a long while so why not get better performance now in pulse before going full chirp concidering my current usage of course.
 

Fvdestiny

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Thanks
I have fcv 295 and simrad nse12 , my backup plotter is Northstar 6000I . I like to keep things simple .My b260 temp broke ,transducer still good. Gonna put A/B switch in and mount new b265 lh. I also have 1kw fcv 585 under the overhang..
The 265lh will give me wider angle when giant fishing.
 

greg

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Thanks
I have fcv 295 and simrad nse12 , my backup plotter is Northstar 6000I . I like to keep things simple .My b260 temp broke ,transducer still good. Gonna put A/B switch in and mount new b265 lh. I also have 1kw fcv 585 under the overhang..
The 265lh will give me wider angle when giant fishing.

The 265 is primarily a chirp transducer. Some conventional sounders can use one, but you have to confirm it. At the very least, you will need some kind of adapter to get the two to work together.

Chirp is a new technolog that uses less power but a more continuous signal. It requires dedicated hardware like the Simrad BSM-2.

If you have questions on whether it will work, there is a guy on the hull truth named gil travis (screen name semperfifishing) who is expert at transducers, including chirp. He also sells them very competitively.

Its a lot to spend if you aren't sure.
 

tunafishhkg

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Gil is the man and will spend time with you answering any questions and has advised me that the 265 will allow full use of what the FCV 1100 and 1150 can do. I also invite comment from Wharf Rat on this site to chime in on what is needed to get my FCV1100 to work with the B265C?
Thanks
 

Wharf Rat

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Hey Fellas,

Sorry for not posting on here in a few weeks, I've been on a much needed bit of vacation, however I've gone through forum withdrawal throughout. First, I'd like to just mention that on the matter of productpricing, I am willing to match AND beat any price offered by BoE, West Marine, or even some Beijing Black Marketeer. All I ask is for a shot, but of course I'd never hold any ill feelings against someone who purchases their gear elsewhere, it's what makes this crappy country great. I'm on here on my free time in order to build our customer base and help increase cash flow for my company, not to mention make some friends along the way. It's one of the reasons I'm a sponsor of this forum, along with the fact that I happen to also be a Downeast design nut and learn a lot from the old salts here. It just made sense to call this forum home. I also think I'm the only guy in this business who hands out their personal cell phone to complete strangers who often happen to be Patriots fans. Hey, nobody's perfect.

More importantly, regarding the B265LH, Furuno has not released their own version nor 'officially' declared its compatibility with the FCV295, 1100, 1150, or 1200. They recommend one of the existing Airmar Rxx9 series or one of their own tank mounted transducers, although there are particular versions of the B265LH that WILL work with the above machines for using the FFS Broadband frequency dial. I will speak to the Furuno USA product manager on Monday to get something in writing that will provide the proper model of the B265LH that will work and with what diplexer as not to void warranty or cause any issues. (The Raymarine/Simrad/Garmin versions are not universally wired, some have additional 'sense' wires that are built in for proprietary reasons.)

I also actually awaiting approval from Furuno EC in Japan to allow me to post screenshots taken using the new DFF1-UHD. I can't promise it, as Furuno keeps these things very tight to the vest before publishing, as they want everything to be perfectly tuned and software ready before putting it out in the public eye, unlike some other companies that posted Photoshopped echo returns on their own web site. Hint, it wasn't Simrad or Raymarine. I'll follow up on the transducer status the beginning of this week, and if anyone is considering purchasing equipment, I do humbly ask that you give the ol' Wharf Rat a try. Aside from being a sad Jets fan, I'm still an alright guy. At least that's what my mother keeps telling me.
 
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tunafishhkg

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Thanks Wharf rat for your time and info! I hope you can find out if I add a chirp transducer now, will it work later with a simrad BSM2 or Furuno? Is it bare wired where you can connect the ones needed since it's more than likely that Airmar would not complicate the manufacturing process and simply put all the wires in and then the end user picks what they need. I do understand the game where this info might not be given so they can make you buy thier product or make people think they have it made just for them in the form of special end connectors to hide what is actually connected, so I will not hold it against you if they do not tell you or allow you to give this info to the general public:roll:
 
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greg

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I was able to find the super secret screenshots wharfrat was referring to. They aren't officially released but I'm no under nda. ;)

img3798h.jpg
 

tomy

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ok warf rat, Mike, and all others. I have a furono 1150 which I love,Markes great but no idea what this chirp business is. can you help a brother out?
(it's not like the wicked tuna shit is it?)
 

Fvdestiny

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please let me know wharf rat..I'm not as interested in chirp as I am a wider cone angle..More alternatives anyway .. Like 46 up to 200 ..My cell is 203 640 6995..talk soon..tommy how are you ..the 1150 is an incredible machine..
 

greg

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In a technical nutshell....

Chirp systems emit a 'swept'-frequency signal, meaning that the transmitted signal is emitted over a period of time and over a set range of frequencies. This repeatable (transmitted) waveform can be varied in terms of pulse length, frequency bandwidth, and phase/amplitude. A matched filter, or correlation process, collapses the swept frequency modulated (FM) received signal into a pulse of short duration, maximizing the signal-to-noise-ratio (after Mosher and Simpkin, 1999). On some of the WHSC systems, tow vehicle depth, tow vehicle altitude, and vehicle pitch, roll and heading are digitally recorded during data acquisition, so that appropriate corrections can be made during data processing. The reflected signal is received by the same tuned transducer array that generates the outgoing acoustic energy.

Short version: Chirp will use the full spectrum of frequencies in a more or less continuous sweep, not a static freq that "pings" out at varying strength depending on depth.

The resolution obtained is pure sonar porn.

I don't have it yet, but will some day as the cost drops.

As noted, some sounders can use a chirp transducer using a diplexer, but it works in conventional, single freq mode (a single freq for each range just as you do today with 50/200, but it could be 45/190 instead).

Each of the vendors (other than furuno) has screenshots on their website, and you can find them in various boating forums as well.

Definitely a game changer.
 

fishcrazy

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will the 585fcv work with chirp technology or should i start thinking about replacing it with the 1100 or 295
 

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ok warf rat, Mike, and all others. I have a furono 1150 which I love,Markes great but no idea what this chirp business is. can you help a brother out?
(it's not like the wicked tuna shit is it?)

Tom,

What CHIRP stands for is 'Compressed Hi-Intensity Radar Pulse," and is simply a different method of delivering sonar pings into the water. What we've been using with most all recreational fishfinders for years is the standard 50/200kHz transmission, which emits a single pulse at a time, just like a standard radar would. 200kHz has a narrower cone angle, with generally sharper definition, however with less depth penetration, while 50kHz has the exact opposite. With the FCV1150, paired with a compatible transducer, the user actually has the option to transmit at their own chosen frequency anywhere between 28 to 200 kHz. However, it's still operating using the same 'pulse' technology which has been the industry standard.

CHIRP sonar, on the other hand, transmits a continuous sweep of pulses across a wide range of about 90 select frequencies all at once, in order to provide a composite image through a digital signal processor to provide what the machine believes is the most accurate representation of targets below. CHIRP also has the ability to find bottom in depths reported up to 10,000', improve target distinction between bottom fish, and provide clarity of bait balls versus game fish. However, most of those qualities are still capable using a machine like the FCV1150, 295, etc, as it's just up to the user to 'dial in' the right frequency for each application. CHIRP just makes it easer as there is less to do. Surprisingly, CHIRP happens to use a lot less power in terms of kilowatts, but due of the duration of the sweep the transducers themselves generate a huge amount of heat, which in turn adds to the cost of the CHIRP transducer which is one giant heatsink.

Now, what I wrote above is a very general explanation on how CHIRP as a principle works, NOT how the current machines out there do the job. Like I mentioned, the digital signal processor and filters along with the software for suppressing noise and interference is the key to getting CHIRP to work as the perfect fishfinder. While the technology has been used for the military and other uses for almost 50 years, it is still in its virgin state in the marine fisheries market. Garmin, Raymarine, and Simrad all rushed their units to market ASAP to gain market share from Furuno's FFS fishfinders, but I'm actually glad that Furuno has waited much longer to release their model, even though they have been working on it just as long as the others.

Personally, as a computer hardware nerd, I've always waited until a particular chipset or processor reached its pinnacle, and then purchased it. One, because I didn't have to pay a premium price, two, because the technology has continually been improved and tried-and-true. That's just me personally, and not to say that the existing CHIRP systems aren't incredible. They are, in fact, changing the game we look at sonar, the same way Simrad's FMCW "Broadband" radar has changed the way we look at traditional pulse radars. At the end of the day, I'm excited to see the trickle down of military technology into recreational and commercial marine electronics. I'm just glad to be along for the ride.

Let me know what else you'd like to know about CHIRP, or FFS, FMCW, or any of the other acronyms I mentioned as I really just gave an abstract on the concept. I always enjoy talking about it, I've dumped two girlfriends because they didn't want to hear about it over dinner, and that's another one of the reasons I'm here.
 

Wharf Rat

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will the 585fcv work with chirp technology or should i start thinking about replacing it with the 1100 or 295

Unfortunately, the FCV585, while an awesome unit, is a single line transmission machine, capable of only transmitting at 50 or 200kHz. While the FCV1150 and FCV295 can work (not OFFICIALLY confirmed) with a CHIRP transducer, neither of those units are true CHIRP sounders (also, as an FYI the FCV1100 has been discontinued for a while now, replaced by the 1150. It's still supported, just no longer sold by FUSA). They simply have the ability to transmit at variable frequencies, albeit only manually. Some people actually prefer that control, due to various frequency properties, like sonar angle, depth penetration, etc. As of now, Furuno has not released or announced to their Elite Dealers their standalone CHIRP Sonar lineup, they've just announced their modular ethernet blackbox for use with their MFD's like the TZTouch and NavNet3D. The Japanese are very tight-lipped, and also do not want to announce ANYTHING unless they can supply it to the market. One of the lessons learned from the NavNet3D introduction, in which they ended up having to air-freight units from Japan in order to fill long standing orders. Because of that cost, they didn't turn a profit on NavNet3D until almost a full year after shipping to the US Market. They did that just to satisfy the demand; I'd love to see another company do that rather than string along customers and dealers alike until their surface freight arrives in port.

I will make sure to keep everyone updated as best as I can, however I cannot violate certain dealer agreements with manufacturers, as I'd like to stay in good standing with the friends I have in high places.
 

tomy

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Warf Rat...THANK you for your expertese! I am certanally one that needs to rent out an 8 yr old to stay on top or all the technoligy. have 28/200 transducer and I think I'm gonna keep it. thanks again:rolleyes:

Mikey! been good . ready for spring. you at show in RI next week? deff cabin fever taking told and need to look at tackle. (bout 10 -12 friends all going next SUN. boys day out)
 
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