Apollo Seacock Help ?

TwoRivers

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My boat has 5 Apollo seacocks. I have just discovered that they are bronze with stainless steel screws. My discharge Purasan seacock is 1 and 1/2 inch. One of the stainless steel screws has corroded. I understand that bronze screws should have been used. Question?, what to do about the corroded screw. Can I drill an adjacent hole and put in a bronze screw ,or do I need to drill out the stainless. All of the screws are just drilled into the backing plate and not the hull. Don't want to have to haul the boat if possible ,but am concerned about catastrophic failure ?
Thanks
TwoRivers

Seacock 001.jpg

IMG_0398.JPG (2).jpg
 
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captcod

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if those were installed correctly you have nothing to worry about since the 3 through bolts bold it together as well as the inch a a half through hull is threaded. i assume the stainless bolt that has sheared of is a "through bolt" and the head of it is glassed over on the outside of the boat and i would lean more toward a electrolosis problem rather than corrosion
 

TwoRivers

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I don't know if the screws go all the way through the hull or not. I'm thinking they are just into the backing plate. I have owned the boat about 18 months. I would have to haul the boat to find out I assume. What to do now ? Added another picture !
Thanks
 

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Keelboater

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If you have 5 of these, I would bite the bullet and haul the boat. Take one apart and see just how they are mounted. What keeps the backing plate sealed to the hull if the seacocks are only lag bolted in place? If that is a hack job, you are border line sinking as it is. If you run that boat way off shore, peace of mind goes a long, long way. Do it right, do it once, and forget about it.
 

Toolate

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I don't know if the screws go all the way through the hull or not. I'm thinking they are just into the backing plate. I have owned the boat about 18 months. I would have to haul the boat to find out I assume. What to do now ? Added another picture !
Thanks

Try turning one with a hand screw driver. If it turns REALLY easily then it is probably just a wood screw and not a through bolt.

Please wait for an expert but my opinion is that those should have bronze 1/4" bolts from the outside with heads glassed over and nuts/washers inside.

Either way I think those ss screws/bolts are too small. Is the hole closest to the camera filled with something (brown substance)? Is your hull solid glass or cored?
 

TwoRivers

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No its not filled, it is corrosion/rust. I'm not sure about the hull, it is a 1989 BHM Flypointe. I am a new boat owner as you can probably tell.
Thanks
 

captainlarry84

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If you have 5 of these, I would bite the bullet and haul the boat. Take one apart and see just how they are mounted. What keeps the backing plate sealed to the hull if the seacocks are only lag bolted in place? If that is a hack job, you are border line sinking as it is. If you run that boat way off shore, peace of mind goes a long, long way. Do it right, do it once, and forget about it.
Excellent advice. If it was my rig and I saw that missing bolt & would call that a head-up it is time to remove that seacock, rebuild it & re-bed it If one is gone the others will follow. You now have only two carrying the load that was meant for three. Should this vessel have a major failure and the surveyor picked up on a problem which shows knowledge by the owner you will be in for a hard time. Lastly If one cock has the problem I would pull them all. One last thing maybe it is the picture, but the bronze looks almost black. If so that is never a good sign. Green is ok but black to me is a sign of galvanic action on the metal. The picture shows a health 28 year old seacock & strainer. Note the color still, still some bronze tint with some green.

Picture 032.jpg
 

captainlarry84

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Second comment. I also notice that the white hose appears to be PCV Sanitation hose. Although they say you can use it below the water line. I always like to Shields 105 Sanitation hose below the water as it has steel wire reinforcement.
 
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sea valves

From your pictures. It appears that those are sheet metal screws into the wood backing block. Given the boats age , I am in agreement that you should haul the boat and check all the sea valves. pay attention to the condition of the bronze. check for corrosion, whether the valves open and close properly. check the integrity of the backing block. and replace the sheet metal screws with bronze thru bolts. A failure of a sea valve will definitely be more costly and ruin your season
 

TwoRivers

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Thanks for the help guys. This is from Jamestown site. It says method on right is acceptable. I plan on having the boat hauled as soon as possible. Hopefully it wont sink between now and then. Until haulout should I try to replace the missing/corroded screw/bolt are just leave it alone ?

Thanks

FIGURE-1 shows a sample seacock installation with two possible methods of mechanically fastening shown. On the left side is the method of bolting through the flange, backing block, and hull. On the right side is the method of bolting through the flange and into the backing block, but not through the hull. We consider either method acceptable, as both represent a safe and secure installation.

Seacock2.jpg
 
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TwoRivers

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Consensus is haul the boat. Picture of bronze screws from Jamestown. I don't guess this is a easy fix ? I was wondering about drilling out the corroded hole and just replacing the screws but I guess that is wishful thinking ? All of my Seacocks are installed this way . Thanks again.
TwoRivers

Wood Screw.jpg

Seacock2.jpg
 
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captainlarry84

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In looking at the photo & based on the fact that the threaded thru hull to the ball valve is doing most of the work. I would not thru bolt the backing plates I see no need for that. However I think that I would extend the bronze screw just a little so a thread of the screw grabs into the hull. I believe your boat is a BHM? If so plenty of glass and no coring. I would also make all new backing blocks. I would make them square. Square blocks will be a lot easier to line up then those triangle blocks. The new blocks should be bedded in 5200 sealer. On reassembly as you start to tighten the ball valve on to the thru hull you will understand why the square block is the way to go. Once tight no matter where the mounting screw are it will be on the wood. I would make the new blocks out of Douglas fur or maybe full 1" marine plywood. I also do not think your in any immediate danger of failure, however I think you need to research why the metal is so dark, that is never a good thing.
 

TwoRivers

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Thanks. Will start the research on the dark metal. Not sure if its just the lighting in the picture but maybe not. I have a Guest Galvanic Isolator onboard but have no idea if its working or really what its suppose to do.
Great Forum!
Thanks
 

Lion's Paw

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I have seen plenty of seacocks that have nothing but the thru hull mushroom holding them into the boat, many with no backing plate at all. Doesn't make it the right way, but the boats aren't sinking left and right. Basically saying don't panic about this missing one screw as in your photo there is no indication of water leaking from this fitting. Just put it on the list for your next haul it and keep a eye on in the meantime.

If you are going to remove and rebed consider using a solid fiberglass pad under the fitting instead of wood and make it larger than that little triangle as capt larry says. You can even bond the glass pad to the hull if you want then after securing the fitting in place drill and the tap the pad at mounting flange holes and just bolt from the inside.
 

CEShawn

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Can someone share more about proper backing? Build it up or
Just use teak or get some fiberglass board? I want to pull and strengthen mine because I can flex some of them and do not like thAt. I'd like to do
Something better.
 

Lion's Paw

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Shawn I'll tell you what I have done with many seacock installs and replacements. I have gone to using a fiberglass backing pad instead of the wood. Wood is easy as you almost always have something around that can be put to use, but it can swell or degrade and cause issues. The fiberglass is solid and won't change but is just a bit more costly. Up side is it bonds great to the hull if you want to do that.

You can make your own backing pad by laying up a bunch of mat with resin, but I don't do that anymore and have sourced the solid glass pad from McMaster Carr. They have a variety of sizes and thickness glass planks and you can go as thick and big as you are willing to pay for. I order a good sized piece and used it for several such projects.

Basically you want to end up with a pad thick enough to actually assist in strengthening the area of the thru hull and proved something for the flange fixing bolts to screw into. The diagram from groco in the earlier post is what you are going for but how wide or long you make the backing pad beyond the fitting is your choice, but don't be too skimpy. I then shape the hull side of the backing pad to fit the hull contour if needed, leaving the flange side perfectly flat paying attention to keeping the top of the pad parallel to the plane of the mushroom head on the outside of the hull. Then prep the hull and pad mating surfaces and epoxy them together. I usually make a nice filet around the joint and of course have rounded off the exposed corners and edges of the pad to make it look nicer.

After this cures you hole saw thru the backing pad using the original hole as a guide. Test fit the thru hull piece for a good fit to make sure it will snug down and has enough threads into the seacock part. When satisfied with the dry fit, break out the caulk of your choice and put it together making sure you end up with the handle in the right spot and direction, etc. and tighten it down good.

Now it is time to do the flange bolts. I no longer put the flange bolts thru the hull but use the method shown on the right side of the diagram, just drilling into the pad and tapping the appropriate thread, holds just fine. (Another reason to use fiberglass over wood pad). Just drill right thru the flange mount holes into the glass. Make sure you mark your bit with something so you don't go blasting thru the hull and take your time. The glass will tap easily with a decent tap. Then it is just installing the holding bolts AND a bonding wire using the bonding screw which is on any good seacock and you are done.

I thought I had some pics of the last ones I did on my boat but don't know where they went. If you really need one, I will be back to the boat soon and can take a couple and post them.
 

Keelboater

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Per Lion's Paw seacock installation instructions - I have this pic available from my head discharge seacock (that never gets used). Don't try to adjust your set.........the pic is blurry. Sorry about that.

Seacock.jpg
 

Toolate

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So Lions Paw, the backing plate might be 3/8 or 1/2" thick?

Just thinking that it must be tough to really fully tap and clean the threads on something that thin with it in place (so you cant run the tap in past the tapered section). You tap the holes in place or on the bench? I read what you said just curious if that is really how you do it.

Also, it seems like you might get a 1/4 x 1" or 1 1/4 bolt at most correct?

Nice post.
 
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