Builders cost to install a lower steering station

andy65

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What would it take to install a lower helm in a 35 Duffy? I'm considering buying a nice boat with a flybridge but no inside station. It is the one in Niantic.

I'd take the fly bridge off and relocate the controls and instruments. What are some of the things to consider? I'm concerned about under estimating cost and time. Is this a $2000 problem or what. Can control lines be shortened or need new? Steering lines? Will need some sort of helm console fabricated. Windshield wipers. I could have a builder do it or do the wiring myself.
Talk to me guys.
 

Brooksie

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No the cables can't be shortened (except maybe the fuel shut off if so equiped) but they are not expensive or if you are really on a budget just coiled up somewhere. You didn't mention the type of steering, if cable, same as above; if hydraulic,maybe just cut & recoupled depending on type of material.
You certainly could do it yourself if you are handy, you can't get anything like this done at a boatyard for 2K P&L
 

kmac

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$2K is not a ballpark figure IMHO. I really don't know but would guess over $5K. I would think you would want to replace all the cables if they are not relatively new. Replacing and rerouting cables is not difficut but time consuming. Fabrication of the lower station will be expensive----the sky is the limit on that one.
 

captainlarry84

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I think your best bet is to first lay out your new helm station area in the wheel house. You most likely will need to box something out so your panel sits at a nice angle & your face is not on top of the windshield. This will require wood over glass construction.
Also look mat out the Duffy's and some idea.
Once that is done I would transfer the helm pump to the new helm. New cables are a must...no we do not shorten we buy new so they are nice & smooth.
The panel should also be an easy transfer, just label all of the wires so the re-install goes easy.
The last thing I would do is to remove the F/B. Make sure that once you get into the project you can complete it. In addition after you have the lower helm you may want to keep just the bridge boot & have an open bridge.
First two are JC helms the 3rd is a very well layed out 35 Duffy. Note how the box panel push's you back some and there is more dash room.

March photo 06 122.jpg

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March photo 06 005.jpg
 

captainlarry84

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Very fine rig the photos on Yacht world look excellent. Therefore my thoughts have change. Do not remove the bridge it is a work of art and adds a lot of value to what appears to be a yacht finished vessel.
Lower station agreed. The wooden cabin which has the TV set is an excellent start for our helm.
Based on the yacht finish I would have a professional boat yard do the work. I would est a complete helm job with electronics at 7K. Well worth it.
I fish on two Duffys One with a F/B & the other without & they both handle the same.
The one nice thing he did on the F/G Duffy was loss all the canvas & just have the hardtop. It took all the windage off the top. The F/B one has a 550 Cummins & the other a C-7 460 HP CAT.
This boat has a very far asking price, good power and just plan beautiful.
I hope you get. There is not a finer 35' boat built then the 35 Duffy...A Diamond!

March photo 06 437.jpg

Picture 013.jpg

Picture 061.jpg

Picture 174.jpg
 

andy65

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The look of all that canvas kills the lines of a Duffy plus the windage. I'm also concerned about the advertised cruise speed of 18kt with a 375 Cat. I doubt it. Losing the canvas should help. Are you suggesting to keep an open bridge with steering and controls?

Good to hear the existing cabinetry is a start. Should help on the cost too.
I often stand at the helm so angle for instruments and vertical wheel is prefered with a seat that allows one to go from standing to sitting without climbing. A slightly raised platform in front of the seat may be the answer. I'm not a tall guy. Have you seen that approach in a Duffy?
Have a pro shop do the cabinetry, hydraulics, and controls, some glass work if the flybridge comes off. Do the wiring myself and budget $5000. A possibility.
I like the boat. Wish it had 425hp, lower engine hours and lower helm.
 

captainlarry84

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The look of all that canvas kills the lines of a Duffy plus the windage. I'm also concerned about the advertised cruise speed of 18kt with a 375 Cat. I doubt it. Losing the canvas should help. Are you suggesting to keep an open bridge with steering and controls?

Good to hear the existing cabinetry is a start. Should help on the cost too.
I often stand at the helm so angle for instruments and vertical wheel is prefered with a seat that allows one to go from standing to sitting without climbing. A slightly raised platform in front of the seat may be the answer. I'm not a tall guy. Have you seen that approach in a Duffy?
Have a pro shop do the cabinetry, hydraulics, and controls, some glass work if the flybridge comes off. Do the wiring myself and budget $5000. A possibility.
I like the boat. Wish it had 425hp, lower engine hours and lower helm.

Hours not to worry. The motor looked well painted and most likely well cared for. She was not a canyon runner that is for sure. I bet most hours were easy ones as this boat has not been fished hard.
The 425 CAT gives you nothing as the high HP comes from 2400 to 2800 RPMs which is to high to run the boat. At max cruising RPMs which is 2400 RPMs there is only about a 20 HP difference. The 375 was a much better motor.
18Knots if she is a fully cored Duffy with a wet tube it might be an 18 knot boat at 2400 RPMs. If she is a solid glass & wet keel more like a 16 Knot boat.
What size is the wheel. It should be a 24 X 24 or 26 X 22 with a 2:0 gear. Did you seatest the boat & does it get 2800 RPMs that is very key.
All in all I think you should move on this vessel. Make him a fair offer and you will have a boat that turns heads. Ask is 124. PM me if you want my thoughts on making a deal.
 

googinhater

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I think your best bet is to first lay out your new helm station area in the wheel house. You most likely will need to box something out so your panel sits at a nice angle & your face is not on top of the windshield. This will require wood over glass construction.
Also look mat out the Duffy's and some idea.
Once that is done I would transfer the helm pump to the new helm. New cables are a must...no we do not shorten we buy new so they are nice & smooth.
The panel should also be an easy transfer, just label all of the wires so the re-install goes easy.
The last thing I would do is to remove the F/B. Make sure that once you get into the project you can complete it. In addition after you have the lower helm you may want to keep just the bridge boot & have an open bridge.
First two are JC helms the 3rd is a very well layed out 35 Duffy. Note how the box panel push's you back some and there is more dash room.
Wow larry that sec pic is one sexy house love the look with the wood what kind size boat
 

andy65

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Thanks for the willingness to share your thoughts. I'm setting up to see the boat. Waiting for response on the wheel, shaft and gear. 425 Cummins recon is what I was thinking would push it nicely. My pockets arn't that deep.
 

captainlarry84

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Thanks for the willingness to share your thoughts. I'm setting up to see the boat. Waiting for response on the wheel, shaft and gear. 425 Cummins recon is what I was thinking would push it nicely. My pockets arn't that deep.

If you are going to repower I would go with the 550 Cummins. Your 507 2:0 gear will work & your 2" shaft will carry the load. Your new propeller will be a 26 X 25. She will cruise at 22 knots. Lose the canvass!
 

tunafishhkg

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Larry is spot on with performance specs. I had a cat 320hp on my foam cored, wet keel, heavy built duffy 13knt cruise at 2400. Repowered with 450HP Volvo and get 18KNT cruise average weight, and 16 canyon loaded though little underpropped.

IMG_3476.jpg
 

captainlarry84

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Larry is spot on with performance specs. I had a cat 320hp on my foam cored, wet keel, heavy built duffy 13knt cruise at 2400. Repowered with 450HP Volvo and get 18KNT cruise average weight, and 16 canyon loaded though little underpropped.

Nice helm note how the helm is boxed out to get you away from the windshield. Is the little laid standing on his toes?
 

tunafishhkg

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No toes LOL. Think unless you raise the house quite a bit that would change the look, if you raise the floor at the helm, standing up to drive especially during rough water or tight crowded situations, would be difficult and head/spine bruising.
 

captainlarry84

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He looks very proud. I like the fact that he is standing behind the standpost for the sider. At the helm it is always go that you can stick your head out the window. Especially when hauling with a anchor ball. All of these things should be taken into consideration when designing a lower helm station
 

harmuthmarine203

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the Duffy your looking at dosent happen to be in CT and be green dose it if it is i know the boat does 18 knots on the pins i have ran the boat my self and it has a well maintained 3208TA 375hp
 

andy65

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That's the one. 18kts wide open indicates the advertised 18kts cruise is optimistic.

I saw the boat. There is a lot to like - it is well maintained by a reputable yard, nicely finished, barrier coated, Awlgriped, has bow thruster, davits, swim platform, generator, 2" shaft. Looks nice.

There are some drawbacks for my use; No lower helm – A lower helm is mandatory for me. In rainy, New England weather, I don't want to be peering through vinyl, with no windshield wipers and run into something. Doing a lower station as it should be done in a boat like this is not to be inexpensive; cabinetry work, sturdy helm and companion seats, an opening forward window, wipers. Another must is to put in a holding tank.

The Letra San head is illegal to use in no discharge zones which is just about every harbor and river in MA, CT, RI and NY.
Installing a holding tank on this boat is a project. Where to put the tank, how to get it in there without removing a lot of equipment and what will have to be rerouted to make space are issues. Plumbing the vent, pump out, and monitor in tight quarters will be take time. The shaft seal is not accessible as it is located under the generator. A leak a sea could not be addressed. For single handed docking, a helm door sure would be nice.




The engine is 25 years old. Although it is running well, it is nearing time for preventive maintenance work to be done on it, in my opinion, to keep it running well for the next several years. Not that this has to be done this season but a consideration for keeping the boat: Pull the engine, remove the heads & send them out, replace the oil pan, have the injectors cleaned, aftercooler and the heat exchanger as needed; remove rust on accessories, engine mounts. By the time this is done, one has to consider if it would make more sense putting the money into a repower.





Most people only look at purchase price. They should look at life cycle cost: Acquisition cost, plus likely major expenses less future value. In 8 or 10 years should an owner have to sell due to health or other reasons; with the existing engine, the boat will command a very low price due to engine age, hours and alternative boats with newer engines and higher hp. The purchase price may appear reasonable now but the life cycle cost will be high. Therefore, one should adjust the purchase price for a low future selling price with the existing engine or plan for the cost of a repower.


I made an offer based on what I would need done to the boat: A lower station, holding tank and repower. The offer was turned down and probably rightly so. If he can find someone who is willing to keep the boat as is, that buyer could offer considerably more.




 

tunafishhkg

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(Qoute) "Most people only look at purchase price. They should look at life cycle cost: Acquisition cost, plus likely major expenses less future value. In 8 or 10 years should an owner have to sell due to health or other reasons; with the existing engine, the boat will command a very low price due to engine age, hours and alternative boats with newer engines and higher hp. The purchase price may appear reasonable now but the life cycle cost will be high. Therefore, one should adjust the purchase price for a low future selling price with the existing engine or plan for the cost of a repower."

If you look this deep into cost vs gain $$$ wise, it will be about impossible to get most any decent boat using a get back/break even, your $$$ algorithm.:D It's hard to justify cost if you really want a bigger boat than a row boat.:rolleyes: Can't fault you for trying of course
 
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andy65

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No, you missunderstand. I don't look to breakeven. Never on a boat. It is about how much I'll lose. For example buying a boat for $120,000 that will fetch $100,000 10 years from has a cost of $20,000. It may be a wiser decision than a boat which costs less upfront say $110,000 but will only bring $75000 when it is time to sell. Ownership cost $35000. Similarly, say a boat costs $90,000 but you know you are going to repower it in a few years. When it comes time to sell, it will have a fresh engine and hp that buyers want and fetch $110,000. $90,000 + $40,000 - 110,000=$20,000. Just looking at how big the hole is from start to finish. Laugh.
 

kmac

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No, you missunderstand. I don't look to breakeven. Never on a boat. It is about how much I'll lose. For example buying a boat for $120,000 that will fetch $100,000 10 years from has a cost of $20,000. It may be a wiser decision than a boat which costs less upfront say $110,000 but will only bring $75000 when it is time to sell. Ownership cost $35000. Similarly, say a boat costs $90,000 but you know you are going to repower it in a few years. When it comes time to sell, it will have a fresh engine and hp that buyers want and fetch $110,000. $90,000 + $40,000 - 110,000=$20,000. Just looking at how big the hole is from start to finish. Laugh.

I think you might be underestimating the cost to repower, unless you are considering recons.
 
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