Cabin Heaters

bluefin650

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Any one have an idea of how many BTU's it would take to heat a cabin and cockpit? I spend alot of time fishing with my father who has poor circulation, as soon as he gets cold, he's done. Would 13k do it? Obviously 18k would be better.Also looking for opinions on Espar or Wabesto heaters. I like the low fuel consumption and the fact that you don't have to have a motor running. I know they are pricey but it keeps the hours down on the engine. I spend all of my fishing time on the hook.


I've been looking at the Espar Airtronic 4 and 5 along with the Wabesto AT3900 and AT5500. Anybody have one?
 

steveinak

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Those espars are nice stoves but remember they need battery power to keep running so if you run down a battery making heat you may not have power to start your engine.
I lot of guys here are using Dickinson diesel or propane heaters, no need for battery power to run. I had a Dickinson diesel stove on my bowpicker for 20 trouble free years, kept the cabin nice and cozy and dry.
propheat.jpg


I'll be installing on of these on my H&H later this winter

dickinson-newport.jpg

DSCN0387.JPG

DSCN0387.JPG
 

bluefin650

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Those are nice but I don't have the space to sacrifice for that unit. Below are the specs for the large Espar including power draw. With the thermostat that these units come with, I don't think it will be running all the time.


Diesel Variant (D)
Voltage V 12
Heat flow btu/hr Small 4,100 Medium 9,200 Large 16,400 Max Power 18,800
Heater air flow rate cfm 60 87 133 135
Fuel consumption gal/hr 0.04 0.09 0.15 0.17
Mean electr. power in operation amp 1.3 2.5 6.7 7.1
Weight lbs 17.6
Size in 20.88 x 6.7 x 6.7
 

levidossak

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I had a Newport 12000 propane in a 23' Jefferson. I will not use one again. On a cool spring/fall day in Alaska it would run on high without keeping the small cabin warm. The Gear shed that I bought from told me that several people had returned the 9000 as well.
 

dwnhmr

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From the Sure Marine web site :

WHY THE RIGHT SIZE IS IMPORTANT
Many factors are involved when choosing the right heater for a particular boat. Merely purchasing a heater based on its compact size for the purpose of “taking the chill off” can be a costly mistake in the long run. A heater that is too small for a boat will work hard to meet the demand called by the thermostat. Even though the heater may only keep the boat at a minimum temperature for comfort, it will run excessively and cause maintenance problems due to wear. Smaller heaters can be attractive in boating because they take up a little less space. Many boaters are willing to accept a small temperature difference in exchange for that extra room, without looking at the extra costs in fuel and maintenance due to over working the heater. The wear that is caused from this excessive running would not be covered under warranty.
Bigger is not always better. Some customers have expressed interest in installing the largest heater possible, thinking it will cut down on operation and wear. If a heater is oversized it will be prone to “short cycle”. Short cycling is when the burner section does not run long enough for its proper heat-up. Like engines, burners must be run up to operating temperature and there is a minimum run time for this to occur. If the burners optimum running temperature is not reached, the unit will run inefficiently and it will be prone to carbon buildup which can lead to extra maintenance.
SIZING A BOAT
Considering these issues, choosing the right heater is obviously very important. Sure Marine Service offers a basic quick reference chart to guide an installer in the right direction. If there is concern about whether or not a heater is right for a boat, there are formulas that can be used to figure out the requirements. The internal volume of the spaces being heated should be multiplied by 12 for a sailboat ((length x width x height) x 12), and by 15 for a powerboat ((length x width x height) x 15). These numbers will give a round number of the BTU requirements, but other factors must be taken into consideration. When considering a heater, the construction of the boat must be considered as well as its size. Windows are sources of heat loss that need to be considered. If a main saloon has multiple windows the amount of heat for that space should be raised. Whether or not a boat is insulated is another factor. If your boat is not well insulated you should raise the heating requirements. Be sure to consider these variables if a boat size rests between heater sizing specifications. We have included tables to assist you in your sizing decision.
LIVE-ABOARDS
Properly sizing a heater for a live-aboard application is crucial. Air heaters should not be used. Since there is no way to store household temperature warm air, an air heating system must fire its burner every time heat is needed. This leads to excessive run times and maintenance issues.
In general, live-aboards and larger boats require a water heating system using a DBW 2010 or above. The DBW series are the only heaters in the Webasto line that we advise for such installations. These systems are designed to maintain a larger supply of hot water which provides a thermal mass to store heat. This cuts down on burner run time while providing good heating system performance.
A properly sized and installed heating system will run better and cost less in the long run. By selecting the right heater for your application the system will work well and the owner will be happy.
 

samhop

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Espar heaters

i run the airtronic 4 in a winter camper 3-4 months a year out west mostly over 7500ft. cold it draws 9 amps for about a minute to start than about 0.2amps for air fan on low. i can run it for 4 days on low before i have to charge 410amp house set. so you dont need to think about the Espar killing you battery. they have a thermostat and draw fuel right out of the tank, combustion air and exhaust from out side and its only as big as a shoe box.
but they are $$$$
 

steveinak

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I had a Newport 12000 propane in a 23' Jefferson. I will not use one again. On a cool spring/fall day in Alaska it would run on high without keeping the small cabin warm. The Gear shed that I bought from told me that several people had returned the 9000 as well.

What style of boat is a Jefferson ? Everybody i know that has those heaters say they run them out of their cabins.
 

levidossak

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Boats

It is a Jefferson shrimp boat or a Lafitte skiff.
It was brought up to alaska in the 80's and George Hamm style cabin was built on it. A friend put one on his cabin cruiser the same time I put mine on and was not at all happy with it. I think I will stick with diesel.
 

steveinak

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Boats

It is a Jefferson shrimp boat or a Lafitte skiff.
It was brought up to alaska in the 80's and George Hamm style cabin was built on it. A friend put one on his cabin cruiser the same time I put mine on and was not at all happy with it. I think I will stick with diesel.

does it have a 40 volvo w/outdrive in it ? Do you have it rigged to jig cod ?? thought i saw something like that on CL. There was one in anchorage that a guy that worked at one of the hatcheries out in PWS bought a few years ago then i lost track of it. Maybe the diesel heaters work better, i had a Bristol Dickinson on my bowpicker and it was always toasty in that house.
 

levidossak

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does it have a 40 volvo w/outdrive in it ? Do you have it rigged to jig cod ?? thought i saw something like that on CL. There was one in anchorage that a guy that worked at one of the hatcheries out in PWS bought a few years ago then i lost track of it. Maybe the diesel heaters work better, i had a Bristol Dickinson on my bowpicker and it was always toasty in that house.


Yes, it had the 40 with outdrive. We bought it from a guy in Wasilla. It was a dull gray when we bought it. I repainted the hull white and the cabin bikini blue. We only had it one summer, just used it for fishing/hunting/camping out of Homer. I didn't want to get rid of it, but we bought a Cook Inlet gillnetter last spring.

P1080750.jpg

Craigs 3 boat.jpg
 

steveinak

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wow it looks 100% better than the last time i saw it. So now your gillnetting in the inlet ? I gillnetted PWS for 20 years but sold out 2 years ago. Now i build & sell shrimp pots & gear for PWS and mess around in the sound on my H&H. I'm not russian i only look like one of them !!
deception 1.jpg

deception 1.jpg
 

levidossak

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That's the best lookin' Russian beard I've ever seen. I stumbled on this sight just recently and I'm pretty excited about all the knowledge being shared. I have a 1968 32' Rawson that I use for gillnetting now, but I would like to end up with A DE. They look like boats should look and I think they would be pretty nice in the Inlet. Keep up the good work on your current project. Nice shrimp!
 

levidossak

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I found a few pictures of the cabin and the heater.

Craigs 4 boat.jpg

SANY0003.jpg
 

steveinak

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That's the best lookin' Russian beard I've ever seen. I stumbled on this sight just recently and I'm pretty excited about all the knowledge being shared. I have a 1968 32' Rawson that I use for gillnetting now, but I would like to end up with A DE. They look like boats should look and I think they would be pretty nice in the Inlet. Keep up the good work on your current project. Nice shrimp!

Thanks on the beard:p. Have you checked out "powderpro" on here ? Brian is building a 38' wesmac as a CI gillnetter he will have it up here this summer, he builds a beautiful boat !! A Rawson i always remember all of those rigs from my Bristol Bay days back in the 80's good looking boats does yours have a 3208 in it? or if i remember right a lot of them had either big gassers or perkins diesels in them.
You sure spruced up the interior of that boat, when i looked at it in anchorage it was a rusty mess, with water dripping right on to the top of the engine, the drive looked beat and the interior was a mess, again nice job. I bet that heater would have worked a lot better if it was mounted down closer to the floor.
I picked up some 3m super duty compound in town today so tomorrow i can start buffing those panels and get them installed on the boat. Check out my website alaskashrimppots.com to see all the gear i have and build. If your ever coming up to anchorage let me know and we can meet for lunch and bullshit a bit.
Steve
 

levidossak

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Yeah, the Rawson has a 3208 NA 210hp with 9000 hours. Still running strong at around 8 knots if I'm lucky. Last summer was my first summer fishing that boat, it was a wreck when I bought it, but with some help I got it going just in time, it was a blast. Best summer ever.
I was tied up to Brian's father in the river this summer and filled me in on what he has been doing. I got to watch him fly up and down the Inlet all summer. I have been drooling over those Wegleys for several years. He does fantastic work. I have not met Brian, but I found him on the forum and chatted a bit. I think he is on the right track with the new build, beautiful.
My heater would have been better lower, but I have a 4 year old and a 2 year old and I wanted to get the stack out of their reach.
Same to you, if you are in Kenai, or heading to Homer to look at boats we can ride together. I'm always up for checking out boats.
Levi
 

levidossak

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I know It's not a DE; it's just practice.
One month before season I pulled out 280 gallons worth of saddle tanks and a friend built a new 120. I put day boxes where the tanks were. New stearing ram, rudder post, stearing station on the back deck. The deck had been raised twice before without removing the old decks. Hundreds of pounds af material hauled out.
We made it out one day without heat and realized we weren't real men. The next day we added a bus heater and stayed nice and dry the rest of the season. I don't think I will own another boat without one. $450.

CIMG3262.jpg

sonny 3.jpg

sonny 2.jpg
 

charlesosgood

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Any one have an idea of how many BTU's it would take to heat a cabin and cockpit? I spend alot of time fishing with my father who has poor circulation, as soon as he gets cold, he's done. Would 13k do it? Obviously 18k would be better.Also looking for opinions on Espar or Wabesto heaters. I like the low fuel consumption and the fact that you don't have to have a motor running. I know they are pricey but it keeps the hours down on the engine. I spend all of my fishing time on the hook.


I've been looking at the Espar Airtronic 4 and 5 along with the Wabesto AT3900 and AT5500. Anybody have one?

My wife and I lived 2 winters aboard our 53' ketch in So. Portland and used a Reflex pot burner stove as our primary heat source which is sold by Hamilton Marine. Other liive aboards had fancier units that required substantial electric power to run fans and circulators, not to mention the installation. And they always seemed to be breaking down. The Reflex uses less than 1 amp to run a pulse pump from the diesel tank (unless you have a day tank) and the unit was very efficient. Hamilton can help you with the proper size. The down side is that you can't distribute heat to all areas of the boat, but for your application, I would think it would work well.
 

steveinak

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Levi did that Rawson come from BB ? name somehow rings a bell in my little brain !! nice job on the flush deck sure makes picking fish easier. Brian & Dad (i've forgotten his name sorry Dad !!) sure seem like great guys and i need to make the effort to get down there to see them this summer, i'll bring my picking hook and get out on that new wesmac :D for a ride.
 

Powderpro

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Steve- My dad's name is Andy, and you are correct, he is a nice guy (at least that's what everyone says;)). If you are serious about going out on an opener or two, bring your gear and we'll brave the waters on the Wesmac. I can use all the help I can get during the peak, which is typically between the 12th - 20th of July.

Levi- Post up some more pics of your boat. I like seeing it sitting low tied up to Snug Harbor's dock. Can't wait until July, the forecast is looking good.
 

levidossak

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Morrie "morris" Porter brought to the cook inlet and he fished it for a while, then his son fished it for a while. I don't know if it ever fished BB.
 

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