Calvin Beal 44 power suggestions?

lobster12

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In the process of building a CB 44. Looking to get the most bang for the buck. Any Suggestions? So far I have researched the Volvo D13(800HP). Cummins QS-11(690 HP). Iveco C13 825(750HP). John Deere 13 liter(750HP)

I am told Cummins is going to bring out a new 15 liter engine. Anybody else heard of that?

Caterpillar seems a bit too pricey.
 

plowin

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If your looking for the most bang for your buck its a no brainer Ivecco/FPT. Additionally they are making one hell of a push and commitment to the market here in the states. I do not believe you will beat there fuel efficiency either. Price a comparable Volvo or Cummins inthe same displacement and horsepower and be sure to include panel,sea trials,takeoffs and mounts if your using them, not likely but if you are. I think the quote will end your search.
 
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backman

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I have a QSM11-670 and would advise against the engine due to the known issues w/ the dry exhaust manifold. The core engine itself is great but the marinization is weak design in comparison.

Tony Athens has told me to prop down to the QSM-630 prop curve and keep fuel burn under 20GPH to keep th heat and EGT down in manifold and turbo.

I can give you lots of detail offline or go read the QSM 11 forum on boatdiesel.
 

eyschulman

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i would go with a cummins or a cat. Deere use alot of fuel dont now much about volvo's.
I don't get the Deere use a lot of fuel. They are a little heavy and that may count in the fuel burn formula but it is my understanding that advertising aside just about all diesel motors new and old get about 20 Hp/gal of diesel with very little variation from motor to motor. The big difference with the new common rail jobs is that they are better at idle and low speed not pushing too much fuel through pump and wasting.
 

FPTMarineDiesel

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In the process of building a CB 44. Looking to get the most bang for the buck. Any Suggestions? So far I have researched the Volvo D13(800HP). Cummins QS-11(690 HP). Iveco C13 825(750HP). John Deere 13 liter(750HP)

I am told Cummins is going to bring out a new 15 liter engine. Anybody else heard of that?

Caterpillar seems a bit too pricey.
Be careful, last I knew the Deere was only rated for 300 or 500 hours per year at 750 Mhp?? You should search out Josh Beale and Shane Hatch and ask the both of them about their fuel consumption numbers with their FPT C13 engines in these hulls. I can tell you that on avg the C13 is burning between 55 and 65 gph in an 11 hour day in hulls of this size traveling off shore 25+ miles and fishing through 300 traps a day and coming back. This is straight form multiple customers feedback, not just one customer. I have posted customer testimonials on here from the very customers that state this and they are members and could state otherwise but don't.
 

lobster12

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Be careful, last I knew the Deere was only rated for 300 or 500 hours per year at 750 Mhp?? You should search out Josh Beale and Shane Hatch and ask the both of them about their fuel consumption numbers with their FPT C13 engines in these hulls. I can tell you that on avg the C13 is burning between 55 and 65 gph in an 11 hour day in hulls of this size traveling off shore 25+ miles and fishing through 300 traps a day and coming back. This is straight form multiple customers feedback, not just one customer. I have posted customer testimonials on here from the very customers that state this and they are members and could state otherwise but don't.

I never thought about the IVECO before as there are virtually no one using them in Massachusetts that I am aware of anyway. Still it is clear that they have made a foot print in the maine lobster boat market. Those numbers above are quite impressive. We fish a similar distance perhaps maybe 8- 10 miles more offshore depending on the time of year. Same number of traps hauled. do you know what they cruise at for speed?

Thanks to all for the responses all input is appreciated.
 

FPTMarineDiesel

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I never thought about the IVECO before as there are virtually no one using them in Massachusetts that I am aware of anyway. Still it is clear that they have made a foot print in the maine lobster boat market. Those numbers above are quite impressive. We fish a similar distance perhaps maybe 8- 10 miles more offshore depending on the time of year. Same number of traps hauled. do you know what they cruise at for speed?

Thanks to all for the responses all input is appreciated.
Hello lobster12, do you know F/V Knockout??? Paul Pender's boat??? That 42' Mussle Ridge has the C13 FPT/Iveco 750 Mhp engine in it... He likes it and is constantly giving prospect customers rides on it.
 

backman

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Iveco 750 educated questions here - not a buyer today but in 2-3 years....

1. If it were your boat and your engine and your 100$/hr you were paying to a mechanic to fix stuff - what RPM and horsepower would you run that 750 at to make it last and also perform?

2. All engines have weak spots and components that will wear over time and break if you ignore preventative maintenance. What are the parts of the Iveco to worry about at 3-4 years/1500-2000 hrs?
 

lobster12

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Hello lobster12, do you know F/V Knockout??? Paul Pender's boat??? That 42' Mussle Ridge has the C13 FPT/Iveco 750 Mhp engine in it... He likes it and is constantly giving prospect customers rides on it.

Not familiar with Paul Pender. I assume he is from massachusetts? Please let me know his contact information.

I have heard that the Iveco requires a very large exhaust system. 10 inch pipe through out. Is this true?
 

djmarchand

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FPTMarineDiesel:

I hate to be techy, but since you are boasting, how about posting a link to the FPT C13 fuel consumption prop curve so we can compare?

David
 
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FPTMarineDiesel

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Iveco 750 educated questions here - not a buyer today but in 2-3 years....

1. If it were your boat and your engine and your 100$/hr you were paying to a mechanic to fix stuff - what RPM and horsepower would you run that 750 at to make it last and also perform?

2. All engines have weak spots and components that will wear over time and break if you ignore preventative maintenance. What are the parts of the Iveco to worry about at 3-4 years/1500-2000 hrs?
Hello backman,

We have many of the C13 out in the field with 7-8 years on them at ratings of 500 to 750 Mhp now and all of them are still running. There have only been two rebuilds in that time and one catastrophic failure which occured in 40 hours as an assy. error, which FPT paid for all of the boat work required and down time for the customer. The overhauls were caused by maintenance issues or lack there of and one of them went over 10000 hours before needing an overhaul because of a broken piston ring, however the engine still turned 2200 rpm (2300 rpm rated) with two broken rings, biggest issue was oil consumption. So, with all that being said out of more than 200-250 of these in operation around the U.S. it really depends on the type of work performed and the type of hull the engine is going into. I would say in most cases for most of these boats, their application and hull efficiency that 600-700 hp is going to give you the longest life out of the engine, but I have 700 hp + engines that are 7 years old now that don't miss a beat, one of which won the Winter Harbor Lobster boat race this year in a 40' H&H at over 31 knots.

As for weak spots, it once was the extension harness that was the issue early on, but through quality control that was upgraded and modified and is not an issue any longer. The biggest weakness is probably the bronze impeller pump, if not properly installed so that the sea strainer will fill without priming, the impeller can cavitate and can have early wear. This has only happened on a couple of applications where the sea water intake is not placed correctly in the hull and therefore the lift is too high and the water pump can cavitate in rough seas. We still get 3 years or more out of the impeller but the customer will complain of loss of flow or prime towards the end. The impeller kit is expensive because it is a bronze impeller pump but if properly installed, grounded and zincs replaced regularly, it can go for 6 years without service. In some cases more, you cannot do that with neoprene impeller pumps and cams. I would say that is really the only weakness, the rest is just standard maintenance that any high performance diesel engine today requires, change oil and filters every 300-400 hours, including fuel filters. Change CCV filters before 600 hours. Check and adjust overhead 1 per year of every 2000-3000 hours, which ever comes first. Clean aftercooler core and heat exchanger cores once every 2-3 years depending on hours of use and maintenance habits (CCV filter or coolant type and zinc replacement).

I can tell you that because this is a bed plate style block and because of the overhead cam CGI cylinder head and high performance multilayer steel shim head gasket we don't have a lot of issues with major wear items at all.. The maranization is engineered in FPT as well as the base engine platform... All FPT engines are designed and developed internally and all of them with the understanding that the engine will become a marine engine, not just a truck engine that becomes maranized or an industrial engine that will become maranized. All of the development is done at FPT by the Marine engineering group. This is why CAT has come to FPT for a marine solution also.
 

FPTMarineDiesel

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FPTMarineDiesel:

I hate to be techy, but since you are boasting, how about posting a link to the FPT C13 fuel consumption prop curve so we can compare?

David
I think that the real world results in applications are far more valuable, but here is the link based off of exponent of 3 on the propeller curve which doesn't account for hull efficiency and drag.

http://www.mshs.com/pdf/brochures/FPT/Cursor/FPT_C13-825.pdf

I posted the real world results because a lot of manufacturers claim a lot of different performance curves than are what are actually achieved in the real world. In the end the real world is all that matters. We have a lot of confidence in that. I am not the one boasting, I am the one passing along the information from the customers themselves, they are the ones happily boasting. :).
 

FPTMarineDiesel

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Not familiar with Paul Pender. I assume he is from massachusetts? Please let me know his contact information.

I have heard that the Iveco requires a very large exhaust system. 10 inch pipe through out. Is this true?
Paul fishes out of Boston. I will contact him and make sure that he is fine with that, i am sure that he will be.

You can get away with 8" exhaust, you just need to divert some of the water flow as the bronze impeller pump moves a lot of water for proper heat rejection of the system. You can do this by installing a y-ball valve and a through hull or have a wash down hose that is live all the time on deck to divert some of the excess water away from the exhaust system. Simple solution, been done many times and very effective.
 
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lobster12

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Hello lobster12, do you know F/V Knockout??? Paul Pender's boat??? That 42' Mussle Ridge has the C13 FPT/Iveco 750 Mhp engine in it... He likes it and is constantly giving prospect customers rides on it.

Paul fishes out of Boston. I will contact him and make sure that he is fine with that, i am sure that he will be.

You can get away with 8" exhaust, you just need to divert some of the water flow as the bronze impeller pump moves a lot of water for proper heat rejection of the system. You can do this by installing a y-ball valve and a through hull or have a wash down hose that is live all the time on deck to divert some of the excess water away from the exhaust system. Simple solution, been done many times and very effective.

It would seem easier to just go with the 10 inch pipe. have you used the Soundown mufflers on any of these engines?
 

FPTMarineDiesel

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It would seem easier to just go with the 10 inch pipe. have you used the Soundown mufflers on any of these engines?
6 to one half a dozen to the other I guess, cost is probably cheaper the bypass way, but up to you. For a muffler, we can supply the specs to soundown and they can size it for you accordingly, this will include the whole system to meet the muffler specs for our back pressure spec. I have worked with soundown only on some recreational applications, I don't have any commercial customers with wet exhaust mufflers.
 
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