DE handling in following sea

[tashmoo2]

I thought I posted before but cannot find now.

Most DE's are good head sea boats but not so great in following sea. This is quote from a Wooden Boat 1993 story on DE's

"I was 40 miles offshore; it was blowing 20 to 30 mph southwest and we were running with a following sea. "says lobsterman Arnold Gamage, talking about and early trip aboard his Peter Kass built 38' Gail Patricia. It was dark, and I couldn't see the waves coming. This is crazy I thought, but I held her at 12 konts and she never ran off on me"

What makes one DE better than another in following sea; hard vs soft chine, build down vs skeg, location of rudder, power, reserve bouyancy, etc. Do you give up head sea abiltiy for better following? What are some of the DE's that you do not have to constantly work the rudder?

 

[aweigh again]

this is a very good set of questions,which i cannot answer to,but am hoping someone who does have this knowledge will share .

 

[MDI45]

I think the built down hull i have now takes a better following sea then the skeg built i had....but that might just be because of more horse power

 

[CEShawn]

I know the worst boat I've seen in even a short following sea is a the old JC31! God, drives me crazy its liking driving making Z turns.

I am really impressed with my General Marine 26, basically put like this, I use the autopilot in a following sea no problem and even some big following seas.

 

[MBILL]

I've run a JC31 in a lot of following seas. I'd say it's not as horrendous as some people depict but it can be a little tender. The hard chine has a tendancy to catch and dig in so you need to steer it and pay attention in a following sea condition. I wouldn't rule out a JC31 based on it's following sea capability.
My boat is a 35 Duffy, builtdown and soft chine. It wanders a bit in a following sea but doesn't dig in like the JC.

 

[CEShawn]

I also wonder about JC's and how they were built if they used different sized rudders and also where weight maybe if that takes into account if some are better than others.

The JC I've run is probably a 1987 give or take a year. It literally throws you 90 degree's in a light roller with 3-4ft chop on top, immediately have to pull back on the throttle and this is like happening quite often.

Luckily the way we fish its most of the time coming back into a stiff breeze where it definitely is a performer in a head sea. Everything is a trade off and that is partially why downeasts are what they are.

 

[Raider Ronnie]

JC = Jesus Christ

 

[Field Tester]

I own a 31 JC, and have absolutely no problem in following sea. As a matter of fact, it's rare that I have to steer it myself. I usually just let the autopilot steer and I have no problems. The only time I need to steer and be careful is if the following sea is very steep and close together.

 

[CEShawn]

I really wonder if there were changes in some of the years as the builders switched... I can post a picture this fall of the JC31 that I fish and maybe some of you guys can. To me the true test is if an autopilot can steer a downeast boat and so far my old H&H 40 could as well as my current General Marine 26.

 

[Keels Rock]

I think it all depends on what kind of following sea, swell (longer interval), or wind chop(short interval), and how fast you want to run. i can tell you that the 34 Calvin Beal I captain is way better than a 31 bhm I captain in any variation of a follolwing sea. Skeg builtvsbuilt down, but both soft chine. The auto pilot is capable at slower speeds but not quite at higher speed needing more rudder correction. The built down definetely eats up a head sea little better though!

 

[fishinwishin]

The bow area needs to be full with the right amount of forefoot to handle a following sea condition well. Eliminating the skeg design at the bow helps too. I'm sure you can picture the keel foward as a steering feature like a rudder. Designing a hull full or without a keel helps substancially. There was a reason for the keel when wood boats were built. Although there were " keelless" hulls made of wood, they were rare.

 

[tunafishhkg]

I too have no problem in a following sea with my 35 Duffy and can troll or cruise in a following sea on autopilot in 6-8 easily. That’s not to say I would go 19knts in 8ft seas as its just not wise but at 14-15 ok. I also would rather steer myself when in 10-12 following as I can maximize the free ride and have done so in less when going the 140mi east of east tuna run to save fuel. I did have to add a rate gyro that is now standard on most AP but not then. I think the addition of bigger rudders and one turn lock to lock helms make a big difference. Most of the older JCs had 3-4turn seastar helms that made it much harder to stay in control.

 

[BillD]

One turn lock to lock?

Curious,
having one turn on the wheel with a big rudder........doesn't that make the boat a bit squirrely (spelling) without the AP? Just handling the wheel while underway?

Never tried a one turn lock to lock but I have steered a small 22 Webbers Cove DE with the typical 3-4 turns lock to lock and even with that, the boat was nicely sensitive to wheel adjustments and would turn on a dime.

Curious,

Bill D

 

[tunafishhkg]

The autopilot does have to be set correctly speed wise for safety and with my power hyd syst, I had to reduce flow via a variable flow control valve. I have the one turn helm only in my tower that I only put on for harpoon fishing since turns are important to stay on a bunch. My helm in the cabin is 1 3/4 turn lock to lock and I have seen other people on my boat who were used to their own helm, have trouble over steering at first when in a steep following but then get used to it. It really makes it much easier to steer all day especially in a steep following as I only have to make small corrections but of course when at 20knts, I would never not give it a rapid turn as it would throw people or equipment violently.

 

[steveinak]

Curious,
having one turn on the wheel with a big rudder........doesn't that make the boat a bit squirrely (spelling) without the AP? Just handling the wheel while underway?

Never tried a one turn lock to lock but I have steered a small 22 Webbers Cove DE with the typical 3-4 turns lock to lock and even with that, the boat was nicely sensitive to wheel adjustments and would turn on a dime.

Curious,

Bill D

I'm 2 turns block to block with the power steering. I hang my hand just over the wheel and steer with my thumb for the most part. Old boat was 5 turns so it took a bit to learn but now i'd never go back to seastar. If i was still gillnetting on the Copper River i'd let you all know how a H&H handles sliding down the front of a 20ft breaker while surfing into the holes in the beach they call inlets! I never ever want to gillnet that place again.

 

[MDI45]

The hole in the beach sounds like when i tuna fished newbury port mass...big waves

 

[steveinak]

The hole in the beach sounds like when i tuna fished newbury port mass...big waves

The copper river flats ain't like anything you guys have seen, maybe 15' of water in the channel and foaming breakers in 5' right next to ya. My sounder would change 20-25' just jogging/drifting around waiting for the tide to slack up so i could go in. I lost 5 friends over there from boats rolling over in the breakers.

 

[buckshot]

the more boat you have in the water in the bow ,and if its to sharp ,it acts as a rudder in a following sea,but is great going into a sea,the trick is to balance the two,but also trying to maitain stability ,thats why" they say" there is no such thing as the perfect boat?

 

[Super Suck]

The copper river flats ain't like anything you guys have seen, maybe 15' of water in the channel and foaming breakers in 5' right next to ya. My sounder would change 20-25' just jogging/drifting around waiting for the tide to slack up so i could go in. I lost 5 friends over there from boats rolling over in the breakers.

sounds like the Chatham Cut long before the last breach, East wind + out going tides= blown windshields with loss of electronics, flying glass, teeth and broken nose. Shit literally hits the fan!

 

[MDI45]

sounds like the Chatham Cut long before the last breach, East wind + out going tides= blown windshields with loss of electronics, flying glass, teeth and broken nose. Shit literally hits the fan!

WOW...that is crazy SS what kind of boat were you in?..i hated the run around Monomoy Island when it was crappy