deck of choice

VPC

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Posts
111
Likes
54
what would be your deck of choice if you were replacing your deck and if someone has legitamite weight comparisons that would be great
also the framing below the deck i'm seeing strongwell, pressure treated those experienced jump in and share your experiences
glass experience and carpentry skills are good however i'm looking to do the least amount of fabricating so keep that in mind
 

tashmoo2

Commander
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Posts
387
Likes
60
Location
Shennecossett Yacht Club Groton CT
Deck of choice depends on how you use hull, workboat or pleasure with speed in mind. Plywood properly sealed holds fastenings well and is very strong. Balsa core, divini cell, and other cores will save weight but will not hold fasteners well and you have to deal holes properly
 

F/V First Team

Admiral
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Posts
6,146
Likes
2,483
Location
Narnia
Website
www.otisenterprisesmarine.com
Boat Make
Northern Bay 36 - Modified
So many options here...

What will the deck be subjected to? Saving weight is always a good thing, more so with today's fuel prices, but if the deck is going to be taking a beating maybe it would be worth it to put in a heavier work platform. If the vessel is just going to be island hopping in the summer time for a daiquiri or three then you could flop down a really lightweight laminate and it would suffice greatly.
 

VPC

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Posts
111
Likes
54
specific

primary use would be pin hooking/charter/ very minimal potting
 

F/V First Team

Admiral
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Posts
6,146
Likes
2,483
Location
Narnia
Website
www.otisenterprisesmarine.com
Boat Make
Northern Bay 36 - Modified
Well, if that was the case, I'd replace the decks with 3/4" Tricel.

Bring the stringer systems up full height and add flanges to both sides so that you have roughly 11" of landing surface on both stringers. Chances are that there will be less than 4' of span between the outboard section of the main stringers and the side of the hull, which should have a flange on it as well, therefore there should be no need for cross framing in this situation since the main cabin will be separate from the work platform and the winterback and other built in pieces will generate the support needed. The decking material can be laminated beforehand, and rightly so should be. After a generous hot coating, put a 1.5oz mat on the underside followed by a 17-08 structure with the mat side down. Once cured, flip the panel over and apply another generous hot coat and cover with 1.5 oz mat, just to stabilize this side so that it can be worked on without damaging the face of the panel.

Trim the panels and set in place, starting from the hull and working into the center, this way you can keep your cuts straight for the most part aside from the curvature of the hull and you can maximize the "scrap" that will be generated for another use. Once the pieces are in place, bed them down with an adhesive, much like Sikaflex 292 and fasten them in place just as you would any decking - I've found that #8 flat head square drive self tapping screws work very well for this, poke them in so that the head goes through the top layer and is just below the surface without completely tearing through the laminate - much like one would do with dry wall. Putty the seams with hull and deck as well as any screw holes that went sub prime (hey, it happens, no judgement) and lay out the final laminate, say 1.5oz mat, 2 layers 1708 - edges staggered from the mat as well as the consecutive layers of structure - and finish with 1.5oz mat with feathered edges overlapping 1-2", in full length pieces. Position all layers and roll them up against the furthest section you will be working. Roll them towards you for roughly 18-24", saturate your work surface and begin rolling the material down working the resin through the fibers, once saturated roll the entire mass of material back onto the spot you just laminated and begin working your way to your exit, rolling on resin then rolling down the laminates one at a time. By the end of the project you should have a deck that can take anything you throw at it and provide a little bit of bounce to save your knees and backs. That's why the ride on a wooden boat is so different than that on a fiberglass one - the bounce, just enough to soften the blows from the waves and not so much so that you go flying off like when the fat neighbor's kid came over to use your trampoline...

At the end of the day it's all about comfort, no matter how many fish you spilled on deck, traps you hauled or harbors that you visited.
 

F/V First Team

Admiral
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Posts
6,146
Likes
2,483
Location
Narnia
Website
www.otisenterprisesmarine.com
Boat Make
Northern Bay 36 - Modified
And as far as weight comparisons, 4x8 sheet of 3/4" plywood weighs 60 lbs or so, depending on the grade and materials used, luan would be my preferred material for plywood instead of the pine/fir A/C grade that a lot of shops use whereas the tricell 4x8 sheet of 3/4" weighs in at 20 lbs. So that is 40 lbs a sheet savings, the glass used would be comparable on both so that's a washout across the board.

With the framing aspect, pressure treated 2x4's weigh in somewhere like 2 lbs a linear foot, plus galvanized hardware which you would probably use like 10 lbs or so in construction. So if we use 10' pressure treated timbers spaced 16" on center with longitudinals running the length of the cockpit some 20' plus uprights you're looking at 200-220 linear feet of pressure treated sock, so that is 400-440 lbs PLUS the hardware So we will say that you have 450 lbs of framing, with all the hatch framing included vs 0 pounds in the example I posted previously.

So if the work platform takes 10 sheets of material that would be 1050 lbs of material before the fiberglass with the traditional plywood and pressure treated vs 200 lbs for the tricel

850 lbs difference between the two methods. And that saves fuel for the life of the boat. How quickly do you think that you would recoup the money spent on the new deck from the fuel company?
 

hmscapecod

Lieutenant
Joined
Apr 6, 2012
Posts
65
Likes
6
Is Sikaflex 292 the best stuff to use or are there other options? I've heard of guys gluing their decks down, and not using screws.
 

VPC

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Posts
111
Likes
54
first thanks for the professional advise tricell were can i purchase it and what would be the app. cost 3/4 4x8 i'm guessing is the standard also could you compare it in your opinion to nida core and coosa thanks
 

F/V First Team

Admiral
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Posts
6,146
Likes
2,483
Location
Narnia
Website
www.otisenterprisesmarine.com
Boat Make
Northern Bay 36 - Modified
no comparison at all to coosa or nidacore

with coosa your weight is going to hell and the price is cost prohibitive

nidacore is made out of recycled milk bottles. nida doesnt have a place in my shop. i know others have had luck with it. i know others also were ruined when the bad batch of nidacore delaminated.

good plywood is going to run you about 60 bucks a sheet

tricell is going to be double that. double the price for a third of the weight that you dont have to haul around for the life of the boat.

thats good math right there
 

F/V First Team

Admiral
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Posts
6,146
Likes
2,483
Location
Narnia
Website
www.otisenterprisesmarine.com
Boat Make
Northern Bay 36 - Modified
I have two go-to products that come out of a tube. One is Rule 300, a clear sealant for use above and below the waterline. The other is Sikaflex292, a white adhesive sealant for use above and below the waterline. If you think you might remove or replace something use Rule. If you want it to be there for the duration, 292 that sucker.

In truth, the adhesive is what holds the product down, where the fasteners simply hold everything together while the adhesive cures.

Hot Coat - the act of applying catalyzed resin to the bare surface of material so that the resin would be absorbed into the substrate to saturate the fibers so that the resin wouldn't be taken away from the fiberglass when lamination begins. Hot Coating can be done in two ways. The first being a sole application which is allowed to cure before lamination begins, giving the surface a secondary bond. The other is to apply a generous amount to the surface to saturate, then introducing fiberglass onto the top of this area so that the resin permeates through the fiberglass, allowing the fiberglass to float on top of the resin doesn't make a very good laminate. Care must be used to make sure that there isn't a puddle under the fiberglass.
 

hmscapecod

Lieutenant
Joined
Apr 6, 2012
Posts
65
Likes
6
And how about plexus? Also heard of guys glueing on their lift rails with this stuff.
 

steveinak

Admiral
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Posts
5,747
Likes
3,529
Location
Piker Central
Boat Make
31 BHM
Travis who makes tricell and who sells it ?? Does composites one carry it ?? You got me thinking for future projects !!
 

tashmoo2

Commander
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Posts
387
Likes
60
Location
Shennecossett Yacht Club Groton CT
deck material choice

1 st team,

A lot builders used and I believe still use Balsa core above the waterline. There are many spongy decks due to improper sealing of holes.

I was wondering why you prefer Tricell over balsa core is the holes in both materials are correctly sealed with epoxy. Balsa is easier to camber in deck
 

F/V First Team

Admiral
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Posts
6,146
Likes
2,483
Location
Narnia
Website
www.otisenterprisesmarine.com
Boat Make
Northern Bay 36 - Modified
1 st team,

A lot builders used and I believe still use Balsa core above the waterline. There are many spongy decks due to improper sealing of holes.

I was wondering why you prefer Tricell over balsa core is the holes in both materials are correctly sealed with epoxy. Balsa is easier to camber in deck


Weight, that's what we're after, less weight in this particular application. Weight savings means FUEL savings over the life of the boat. Putting some camber into the panels is no different between a balsa (or foam) cored panel vs a tricel panel, they both will bend, and if you're savvy enough you can put a camber in them when you laminate the panel prior to putting it in place. Easier with the tricel in this regard since you don't need a curved table to make the initial laminate face, just a separating agent and a weight, a few bricks in a bucket makes a good one.

And what is this epoxy stuff? Has no place in my shop, but that's just what I prefer. No doubt my feelings on this can be found in many other threads on this site.

Proper sealing of any and all penetrations is paramount no matter what the coring used is. Even if it's a hole in solid glass there should be sealant of some kind used. When attaching anything to a surface backing plates should be used where possible. Depending on what is being fastened, how it is fastened and how the area will be used is what factors into if the holes need to be de-cored and filled with a product.

Coosa is a heavier product by the nature of its design which varies depending on the density that is chosen. You need more support when using Coosa in place prior to glassing it. Chances are you could use a similar method as above if your pre-glassed both sides for your installation and use fewer supports.

The original example was a pleasure boat construction of a deck with partial heavy use. A pure commercial boat would be different in the methods and materials used. Tricel may not be for everyone, but then again Coosa isn't either. Every boat is different.

Epoxy sucks

That is all :)
 

F/V First Team

Admiral
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Posts
6,146
Likes
2,483
Location
Narnia
Website
www.otisenterprisesmarine.com
Boat Make
Northern Bay 36 - Modified
There are a lot of spongy decks made with plywood too, don't blame the materials, blame the person who poked holes in the laminate.

No material is safe when poor judgement is tossed around willy nilly
 
Top Bottom