Design changes & what is a real DE?

[tashmoo2]

Hull molds get sold for various reasons. You would hope that the new owner would correct any problems, specifically does anyone know the difference between a Nauset 35 and a Bruno 35 or Ron Tarr Harris 35 ft Hull and a Cuttyhunk Harris 35 hull. I always thought that the Ron Tarr Harris 35 became the Runaway.

Runaway looks nothing like a downeast yet Ron Tarr sold his 35 ft as a DE hard chine lobster boat or a sportfishing boat. What makes one DE and the other maybe a DE?

 

[j dandy]

35' Bruno

the 35' nauset is a 35' Bruno they bought the molds 35'&42 at auction when Bruno went under. the nauset had much more glass in the hull.rudder port area had about 2 1/2" the keel had a shaft tub about 3' long and that area was all solid glass. the Bruno was thin in both areas and narrow you were limited on putting a larger shaft. the cuttyhunk built by Chet Harris was a true Bruno hull also came from the same mold ( that's another story) but when he built the hull he added 1' to the stern and called it the cuttyhunk 36', think it was the diamond girl black hull. nauset made both the the lobster hull&sport fishing high sheer,think he made only one 42' not really sure.

 

[Super Suck]

You would think that all the different builders out there, someone would design a hull with all the benefits of a downeast hull, stabilitly while trolling and cruising in any direction, stability while not under power, speed and efficiency. Build a TRUE downeast boat

 

[tashmoo2]

J Dandy

Is this a Bruno or Ron Tarr Harris

 

[tashmoo2]

This is also listed on MIdcoast Yacht sales as Cuttyhunk Harris

 

[j dandy]

Hi cap, with out getting a closer look, judging by the lines and fwd trunk cabin i will say that's a Bruno, if its 36' then its still a Bruno but built by C. HARRIS. I don't no what happen to the 35' Bruno mold. the mold had stress cracks in it and would need extensive work .
the second boat i would say is a 36' Harris not made by Chet Harris.
how i do?

 

[tashmoo2]

I think you are correct. The white boat was built when Ron Tarr made the Harris hull. I do not know why they call it a Cuttyhunk Harris. boat is in Jamestown, go have a look and see if the tuna are still swimming down the beach.

 

[SORTIE]

real DEs have stern controls and a tiller

they do NOT have planing hulls, stepped hulls, swim platforms, reverse shear, or any of the like

DEs are no-nonsense functionality: "get me out there and get me home, in any weather"

 

[John Riddle]

SS:

I'm not an authority, but my personal guess is that the very finest DE hulls exhibiting the best overall combination of speed, economy, stability, ease of motion in a head or beam sea, and handling occurred among the last of the wooden boat builders (and the early glass builders too since I suspect they simply took molds from the best of the wood boats they liked). I think in those days, the boats generally cruised around 14 knots on 250 horsepower or so, they were generally narrower and they displaced more. Those boats were the result of constant development that started when they first put an internal combustion engine in a working lobster boat that probably started as a sailing hull.

Since then, there has been more emphasis on speed and load carrying ability which means lighter weight and more beam coupled with small radius bilges (or sharp chines) and more power. Those factors necessarily affect the speed/economy ratio as well as the motion and handling, probably in a negative way more often than not. Not that there's anything wrong with that. If a man is willing to compromise on one feature to maximize another, and the builder accommodates that, then everyone's happy. Whether that results in a "true DE hull" has been debated (without a conclusion I think).

I know what I'd prefer in a DE so I'd be interested to discuss your version of a "TRUE downeast boat". PM or email me if you're interested in discussing it.

 

[gulf_of_maine]

A real downeast.

A boat built in the downeast area of Maine in the manor of downeast boats.

Anything else is a copy of downeast.

 

[Super Suck]

There nothing wrong with modifications and improvments but times have changed. Personally, I have always like the 35' Duffy but have spent much of my time on a 32 BHM and various other smaller boats. I don't know hardly anything about boat building, (had to get that out of the way,) but have read alot about what goes into building boats from 12' to a 58' eastern rigged boats built of wood and fiberglass. One fisherman/builder said he wanted the boat to sit in the water similar to a seagull, broad in the front and narrow at the stern. Last year I gave family member a copy of the book, "Boatbuilding Down East: How Lobsterboats Are Built" by Royal Lowell and been trying to borrow back the book to read myself. Can not a builder create a vessel that could provide everything we all want, with benefits? What could be improved: a hull that can slip through the water with less fuel burn and still be able to handle any sea and carry the weight of any fishing appartus, traps, dredges, net reel, etc.
But why just modify the hull design, the power plant too can use a benifit as well, less hp without losing speed. I have a ton of questions regarding hull designs and power.

Am I just living in the fantasy world?

 

[tunafishhkg]

Basically YES :cry: unfortunately, Laws of physics are directly proportionate to reality in a linear and geometric curve.
.

 

[Pedlyr]

Like anything else, the DE boat has certainly evolved.

Don't forget the influence of the Canadian Novi hulls.

 

[John Riddle]

SS:

It's natural to want a hull design that performs brilliantly in any condition but every design feature that improves one characteristic also compromises another.

For example, for a given sea condition, no hull shape (in a monohull) will run faster into a head sea than a deep-vee while providing the same "comfort" in its ride. But the deep vee shape that allows it to do that also makes it a jerky platform trolling in a beam sea. Plus, unless it's planing, the deep vee shape is not very economical to run.

By contrast, a typical DE will be slower into the same head sea but probably more comfortable (due to the slower speed), it won't snap roll at low speed in a beam sea and it'll be efficient (in terms of fuel economy) throughout its speed range.

The other problem is that many of those characteristics are subjective. Everyone wants speed with economy for example, but what is "speed" and how do you define "economical"? There was a day when a 15 knot lobsterboat was unbelievably fast and loading 30 traps aboard at a time must have been incredibly productive. Nowadays, a boat has to be twice as fast and carry three times the load at a much higher cost per mile. But apparently it's worth it, so that alone makes it "economical" in the eyes of the guy paying the bills.

In hull design, you usually decide which feature(s) you are wanting to emphasize, recognizing that other features will be compromised to some degree. I remain available if you have a project in mind and would like to discuss it. Just PM or email me.

 

[ruthlowell]

Jon Johansen's definition

In Maine Coastal News, Jan 2010, Jon Johansen somewhat heatedly addressed the question of defining the Downeast lobster boat: Maine Coastal News: 2010 01

 

[MDI45]

Jon Johansen should have said at the end of the artical....i dont wanna hear another word about so called downeasters..lol cause he was mad!!!