Diesel Electric Hybrid Lobster Boats

[Eastporter]

Is this the future for us? It seems to make sense with fuel being so expensive.

ELECTRIC NOREASTER "ELECTRA"

 

[El Mar]

Personally I would love to see some diversity in boating powerplants. Not sure if diesel electric is the answer but we have the technogy, let's start using it.

 

[googinhater]

Wheres the black smoke come out

 

[Keelboater]

I recall seeing an Elco launch at the boat show a while back. It was nicely constructed and very simple. No transmission-just a forward and reverse switch. There is also the Duffy electric launch that has sold quite well. Diesel electric could be really nice if the weight could be minimized. Pulling traps would be nice and quiet, that's for sure. I think that the natural gas engines are closer than we realize for small craft use as crazy as that may sound. They are going into trucks, large commercial tugs, and even trains as an alternative to burning diesel.

 

[Badlatitude]

Huge ships are electric. Why not smaller vessels?

 

[chortle]

Major hybrid mojo...

Displacement: 14,564 long tons (14,798 t)[4]
Length: 600 ft (180 m)
Beam: 80.7 ft (24.6 m)
Draft: 27.6 ft (8.4 m)

Propulsion: 2 Rolls-Royce Marine Trent-30 gas turbines driving Curtiss-Wright generators and emergency diesel generators, 78 MW (105,000 shp);
2 propellers driven by electric motors

 

[RT46]

the 200 hp Elco motor is listed at $22K

that is without generator(s), solar panels, or batteries.

A complete diesel electric system for a work/lobster boat could end up costing more than an modern diesel engine of comparable hp.

It doesn't seem to be cost effective, yet.

On huge advantage of the electric motor is that it has something like a 50,000 hour service life before MOH. No filters, no oil changes....(except for the generator)

There has been some success with electric cats and sailboats that operate at hull speed.

Just doesn't seem to work in a lobster/work boat yet.

 

[sailor of fortune]

The down side of Diesel electric (for small boats) is that they have to have heat in the engine room year round. No putting it on a mooring. Always need a shore power hookup to keep moisture out of the "electrics" Not a problem on a ship or larger vessel.

 

[Toolate]

the 200 hp Elco motor is listed at $22K

that is without generator(s), solar panels, or batteries.

A complete diesel electric system for a work/lobster boat could end up costing more than an modern diesel engine of comparable hp.

It doesn't seem to be cost effective, yet.

On huge advantage of the electric motor is that it has something like a 50,000 hour service life before MOH. No filters, no oil changes....(except for the generator)

There has been some success with electric cats and sailboats that operate at hull speed.

Just doesn't seem to work in a lobster/work boat yet.

Do you have a link for this motor?

 

[noreaster]

The down side of Diesel electric (for small boats) is that they have to have heat in the engine room year round. No putting it on a mooring. Always need a shore power hookup to keep moisture out of the "electrics" Not a problem on a ship or larger vessel.

Not sure how it plays in the northeast, but there are a couple Farrin west coast boats with solar panels that could certainly run small fans, etc if that is enough to keep the components dry. Again adds to cost, but probably do-able.

 

[sailor of fortune]

These type of electric motors need more than "fans". They need lots of heat to keep the electric motor corrosion free. LOTS of electric heat, all the time , 24/7.

 

[Brooksie]

Where do these "greenies" think the power for their electric cars and boats is coming from when they plug in to charge; If not a coal or oil fired power plant? As long as they don't have to look at where the power is made, or the coal being mined, they are happy doing their part and pretending.

 

[FPTMarineDiesel]

Is this the future for us? It seems to make sense with fuel being so expensive.

ELECTRIC NOREASTER "ELECTRA"

Yes, this is the future for sure. It would be very economical, think about it from a Lobstering application, you could charge the batteries on the way out the grounds and then the engine could shut down once fishing the gear and you could idle around on the batteries. Then with a voltage sense system the engine could be started and run whenever the battery voltage got down below and acceptable limit and charge the system back up and away you go again. With today's techonology it would be seamless for a transition between systems. We have an interesting test program with one of our customers for this type of system along with alternative fuels. Have to stay ahead of the curve, first come is the big winner, if developed well with real world test hours of course. It would surely save upwards of 30% fuel or more per year if sized correctly and designed correctly for the duty cycle of the application.

Good topic!

 

[chortle]

Please keep us up to date on this project or give us more details now as appropriate. I and others here, I think, would be interested to see the data that shows where the fuel savings are and are not and what the obstacles are that might keep it from moving forward. You may well have some quality free brainpower here, sort of like crowd sourcing but a bit more targeted.

 

[jojobee]

They had a wood lobster boat, around 26' or so, at the Maine boat builders show a few years back and it had an Elco in it. 100% torque @ 1 rpm.

 

[chortle]

Regarding corrosion of electric motors that sit idle for long periods I think that this can be overcome with current technology and correct specification of the motor build. Regarding corrosion to the case components, stator or rotor the standard TEFC motor with corro duty spec and with condensate drain holes correctly located will work just fine. If the motor sits for really long periods, six months or more, it is useful to turn it by hand occasionally but this could be accomplished by automatic controls and normal battery back up power/solar supply. The same goes for the conduit box, proper drain holes and if need be a space heater would solve this issue.

 

[chortle]

A good point by Brooksie, up to a point. If your local power plant is a nuke (19% of US commercial power is nuke power) and you only need to drive short distances then hybrids or plug ins make sense. If the US would get off its duff and convert to a nuclear waste disposal system that makes sense (like the French system) then it makes even more sense. In any case, the sooner we stop putting thousands of years of trapped carbon into the atmosphere the better. Yikes! There I go again on my soapbox, sorry. I do, however, like my big, heavy, loud V8 diesel, up to a point.
https://plus.google.com/photos/1008...5890237493562126434&oid=100807000759304457569

 

[Brooksie]

Yes, this is the future for sure. It would be very economical, think about it from a Lobstering application, you could charge the batteries on the way out the grounds and then the engine could shut down once fishing the gear and you could idle around on the batteries. Then with a voltage sense system the engine could be started and run whenever the battery voltage got down below and acceptable limit and charge the system back up and away you go again. With today's techonology it would be seamless for a transition between systems. We have an interesting test program with one of our customers for this type of system along with alternative fuels. Have to stay ahead of the curve, first come is the big winner, if developed well with real world test hours of course. It would surely save upwards of 30% fuel or more per year if sized correctly and designed correctly for the duty cycle of the application.

Good topic!

30% ?? where would that come from? By the way, did you read the 2 part electric power piece by Calder in ProBoat? A very good piece with real numbers by a tree hugger. But it just doesn't work, just too many losses converting diese to electric, storing it, then turning it back into rotational power. Not to mention the high voltages that must be involved for it to work, and the weight and disposal problems with batterys.

If it were viable to do what you are suggesting. diesel/electric locomotives (where battery weight is no penalty) would have done done it decades ago. Generating extra power on the flats, storing it, & using it on hills.

 

[FPTMarineDiesel]

30% ?? where would that come from? By the way, did you read the 2 part electric power piece by Calder in ProBoat? A very good piece with real numbers by a tree hugger. But it just doesn't work, just too many losses converting diese to electric, storing it, then turning it back into rotational power. Not to mention the high voltages that must be involved for it to work, and the weight and disposal problems with batterys.

If it were viable to do what you are suggesting. diesel/electric locomotives (where battery weight is no penalty) would have done done it decades ago. Generating extra power on the flats, storing it, & using it on hills.

Hello Brooksie,

There are a lot of new electrical generation technologies out there as well as battery technologies, but it sounds like you are a complete nay sayer and already know everything there is to know about it so my information is a waste of time here. I have not ever been one to discuss anything on this site that is erroneous or just blown smoke and hot air, just saying, as an engineer there is no value in just throwing numbers out there. Like I said, depending on the engineering of the system for the type of work performed a high efficiency can be created. In fact for Euro 6 -7 and Tier 5 emissions and fuel consumption improvement requests from customers, engine efficiency will need to reach levels of 55% or better as targets, that is up from 40% on avg. now. How do you suppose that will be done, if it isn't done with some alternative technologies and fuels? This type of technology here that is being discussed will find its way into vessels on the water at some point.. People can fight change only for soo long, but in the end change is what is coming and through new technologies and opportunities such as this.

Only recently over the past 5-6 years has the battery technologies and generation technologies for hybrid become something that is reasonable and reliable enough to work with, this and the emissions legislation along with customer demands will drive the changes in the future.

 

[BillD]

Euro this, Euro that....Europe policy can stay in Europe. :roll:

Thank god for fracking and the uptick in shale oil and natural gas production in the good ole USA.

Get rid of the pro greenie tree huggers and the top honcho fool and increase coal, natural gas and oil production and while at it maybe a 1/2 doz new nuke plants in every state.

After that a Tier I marine diesel in every new build !!!!