Duramax Marine Diesels ???

captjohn

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Hummer engines, don't know of anyone putting one in a boat yet. Diesels are funny, sometimes a great engine "on land" doesn't work out at all on the water, and sometimes an engine that doesn't work that well on land, makes a great engine on the water. I wouldn't want to be the first unless they made me one hell of a deal and I had the cash to be able to afford making a mistake.
 

FPTMarineDiesel

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Here is what I think that consumers should keep in mind, the engine that is Duramax is designed around a useful life of 300,000 miles on avg. Now I am sure there are many out there at higher mileage than that, but this is what the mechanical development target is. The engine is designed around a light duty application over the road. Sure there are a lot of these engines making a lot more horsepower than they inteded to, but again the engine is not really developed for high load continous high load for extended periods of time.


The larger manufacturers that maranize their diesels are generally developing engines with the intention for them to be used at high power, off road in industrial applications where the load profiles are very severe and the environments are severe. So the base engine mechanical development of parts is designed around that type of application, therefore they are built more robust and with higher BE targets.


For example:

FPT develops their engines at a BE10 target, where the highest power setting is taken into account in mechanical durability and endurance testing for this target, the engine is run through various speeds and loads where over the test cycle an avg. of 78% load is maintained throughout the whole test cycle. This doesn't mean that it is not tested at max load and max speed or peak torque at peak torque speed, it surely is tested there for thousands of hours, but there are also over speed test parameters and idle parameters mixed in, thermal shock evaluations, etc, etc. Anyhow, FPT assures a 10,000 hour (BE10) useful life to comply with the DF requirements of the EPA at an avg. load of 78%. I have to wonder with very high levels of question if the Duramax marine engine is not being tested or developed to that type of standard as it is not meant for that type of work and application duty cycle and load profile?

Also, the maranization is done by an outside company, it is not designed and developed by the engine supplier itself or the manufacturer, this has and can have its own issues. Take the E9 Mack as an example and the E7. The engines were good engines, the marine components and maranization was always the weak links and the problem components for the most part on the engines.


Just my 2 cents and my personal experience for what it is worth to anyone.
 

FPTMarineDiesel

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Here is what I think that consumers should keep in mind, the engine that is Duramax is designed around a useful life of 300,000 miles on avg. Now I am sure there are many out there at higher mileage than that, but this is what the mechanical development target is. The engine is designed around a light duty application over the road. Sure there are a lot of these engines making a lot more horsepower than they inteded to, but again the engine is not really developed for high load continous high load for extended periods of time.


The larger manufacturers that maranize their diesels are generally developing engines with the intention for them to be used at high power, off road in industrial applications where the load profiles are very severe and the environments are severe. So the base engine mechanical development of parts is designed around that type of application, therefore they are built more robust and with higher BE targets.


For example:

FPT develops their engines at a BE10 target, where the highest power setting is taken into account in mechanical durability and endurance testing for this target, the engine is run through various speeds and loads where over the test cycle an avg. of 78% load is maintained throughout the whole test cycle. This doesn't mean that it is not tested at max load and max speed or peak torque at peak torque speed, it surely is tested there for thousands of hours, but there are also over speed test parameters and idle parameters mixed in, thermal shock evaluations, etc, etc. Anyhow, FPT assures a 10,000 hour (BE10) useful life to comply with the DF requirements of the EPA at an avg. load of 78%. I have to wonder with very high levels of question if the Duramax marine engine is not being tested or developed to that type of standard as it is not meant for that type of work and application duty cycle and load profile?

Also, the maranization is done by an outside company, it is not designed and developed by the engine supplier itself or the manufacturer, this has and can have its own issues. Take the E9 Mack as an example and the E7. The engines were good engines, the marine components and maranization was always the weak links and the problem components for the most part on the engines.


Just my 2 cents and my personal experience for what it is worth to anyone.
Oh, and I am not knocking the Duramax, good engine for what it is designed to do for work! Just adding a perspective from engineering development, that is all.
 

cptnpete

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I had an old boat that had one of the GM diesel engines. Mine was a 6.2L naturally aspirated version under the Peninsular brand and it was a 1991 (see pic). Prior owner had used it to replace a gas BBC or SBC, which is part of the beauty of these for easy conversion to diesel. The boat (a 1973) even still used its original Volvo outdrive.

There were a lot of misperceptions about these engines. Some thought they were just Oldsmobile gas engines converted to diesel. But my research showed they were designed from scratch by Detroit Diesel when it was part of GM. Yes there were millions made for Hummers. Some of the 6.5L versions apparently had some issues with cooling and/or blocks. And there were different folks doing the marinization so there could be issues there.

Mine ran like a stinky champ. Reminded me of the similar vintage Volvo TAMD41 I have in another boat.

If I had a gas V8 that I was converting to diesel I might take a close look at these as pricing seemed to be attractive. I might be leery of the higher output versions for longevity but for most pleasure boat applications they would probably be fine. I don't know about commercial applications.

I like the web site brochure from these folks as they look like they are doing it right - come to think of it I have an old chris craft lancer that might be worth such a consideration so thanks for pointing these folks out as I had not heard of them before. ;)

933.jpg
 

FPTMarineDiesel

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I had an old boat that had one of the GM diesel engines. Mine was a 6.2L naturally aspirated version under the Peninsular brand and it was a 1991 (see pic). Prior owner had used it to replace a gas BBC or SBC, which is part of the beauty of these for easy conversion to diesel. The boat (a 1973) even still used its original Volvo outdrive.

There were a lot of misperceptions about these engines. Some thought they were just Oldsmobile gas engines converted to diesel. But my research showed they were designed from scratch by Detroit Diesel when it was part of GM. Yes there were millions made for Hummers. Some of the 6.5L versions apparently had some issues with cooling and/or blocks. And there were different folks doing the marinization so there could be issues there.

Mine ran like a stinky champ. Reminded me of the similar vintage Volvo TAMD41 I have in another boat.

If I had a gas V8 that I was converting to diesel I might take a close look at these as pricing seemed to be attractive. I might be leery of the higher output versions for longevity but for most pleasure boat applications they would probably be fine. I don't know about commercial applications.

I like the web site brochure from these folks as they look like they are doing it right - come to think of it I have an old chris craft lancer that might be worth such a consideration so thanks for pointing these folks out as I had not heard of them before. ;)
That is exaclty the market that is right for them. However, I know that they are also trying to promote them commercially as well. I agree w/ you that great gas V8 replacement and likely a good strong candidate for some recreational pleasure boat business both new and repower.

Great picture!
 

BillD

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Peter's post is correct.
Designing for lifetime average load.

Go over to boatdiesel and do some searches on TDI 2.0 and 3.0 liter diesels.

The "new" marine diesels using smaller displacement diesels designed for european motorists.

Run them @ 80% continuous load to move and keep a boat moving at cruise speed. Well they just don't last long.

Rememeber, no "on/off" the throttle or coasting downhill in a boat that cruising @ 20-22 knots.
 

captainlarry84

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Stick with the big guns. Yanmar, CAT, Deer, Volvo Cummins, and down the line. As years pass motors come & go leaving part availability always a problem.
 

v8flooz

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Banks Marine makes a twin turbo/supercharged version of the Duramax that looks bad ass!
 

snowstorm

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fpt

i have a question for you. fpt is iveco right? if so what do you know of the ford new holland iveco engine? model 7675si10.05?? its not in a boat. its in a rottne forestry machine. every place i have tried for parts has just looked at me funny. i talked to a rottne tech in canada and he says it fantastic engine. often times running for 30,000hrs or more with little trouble.
 

Eslang

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Hummer engines, don't know of anyone putting one in a boat yet. Diesels are funny, sometimes a great engine "on land" doesn't work out at all on the water, and sometimes an engine that doesn't work that well on land, makes a great engine on the water. I wouldn't want to be the first unless they made me one hell of a deal and I had the cash to be able to afford making a mistake.
3208 prime example
 

TomB

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On the topic of V8 diesels, I wonder if the new Cummins 5.0 V8 diesel that is going into the Nissan Titan pickup truck is suitable for conversion to marine use.

If you haven't heard of the pairing of Nissan and Cummins, here is a little video on it:

Nissan Titan w/Cummins 5.0 V8
 

FPTMarineDiesel

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i have a question for you. fpt is iveco right? if so what do you know of the ford new holland iveco engine? model 7675si10.05?? its not in a boat. its in a rottne forestry machine. every place i have tried for parts has just looked at me funny. i talked to a rottne tech in canada and he says it fantastic engine. often times running for 30,000hrs or more with little trouble.
Hello, sorry it took so long for me to find this. Yes, FPT and IVECO are one in the same company. Have you tried any industrial distributors of FPT in N.A.? Have you tried contacting FPT direct in N.A.? What is it you are looking for? I may be able to help you Snowstorm.
 
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jojobee

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I like "one off" boats but I don't like one of a kind engines. Tough to maintain and tough to sell.
 

snowstorm

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Hello, sorry it took so long for me to find this. Yes, FPT and IVECO are one in the same company. Have you tried any industrial distributors of FPT in N.A.? Have you tried contacting FPT direct in N.A.? What is it you are looking for? I may be able to help you Snowstorm.
in the spring i will do an inframe on it. its at 17500 hrs and has a little more blow by than i like. it runs fine. the rottne tech told me to just hone the cylinders and put new rings on the old pistons. no need for new ones. rool new bearings in. when i asked about resurfacing the head. he says no need for it. he did say the injection pump should be rebuilt at around 20000hrs. this motor runs at 1600rpm when working. i was told 175hp? sound right? is it a 5.9l? where can i buy parts? anything you can tell me about the motor would be helpful
 

FPTMarineDiesel

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in the spring i will do an inframe on it. its at 17500 hrs and has a little more blow by than i like. it runs fine. the rottne tech told me to just hone the cylinders and put new rings on the old pistons. no need for new ones. rool new bearings in. when i asked about resurfacing the head. he says no need for it. he did say the injection pump should be rebuilt at around 20000hrs. this motor runs at 1600rpm when working. i was told 175hp? sound right? is it a 5.9l? where can i buy parts? anything you can tell me about the motor would be helpful
Hello Snowstorm,

The best people to contact are GenRep LTD and FPT North America. Try [email protected] for technical parts support and to discuss how you can access parts for this model engine. It is an older industrial engine but he will be able to help you source parts. Have you tried GenRep LTD? www.genrep.com, they are a very good resource also for industrial FPT/IVECO spare parts.

Regards,

Peter
 
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