engine gauges ?

tomy

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ok here goes...I have my standarg series or gauges on my c series cummins..Would still like to have a little more safty built in other then engine temp,volt meter,oil preasure.
i saw on general discussion the coment by Bill D, and WC1966 about raw water temp senders. Can we discuss what others gages I /We should have for our engines? how bout transmission temp?
As I'm probably going to install, would like coments as to good,bad, and ugly. thanks in advance. Tommy:cool:
 

Blitzen

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Exhaust Temp.
 

tomy

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Oh good one Blitzen. can you recommend any?
 

BillD

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ok here goes...I have my standarg series or gauges on my c series cummins..Would still like to have a little more safty built in other then engine temp,volt meter,oil preasure.
i saw on general discussion the coment by Bill D, and WC1966 about raw water temp senders. Can we discuss what others gages I /We should have for our engines? how bout transmission temp?
As I'm probably going to install, would like coments as to good,bad, and ugly. thanks in advance. Tommy:cool:

Tomy, your 6CTA gauge panel is a bit "limited" on real time warnings

How much work you want to do before you "splash" in a few months?
EGT monitoring = "engine load"
Raw water alarm = sucking up a plastic bag, cooking an impeller or leaving the engine seacock closed.
Engine coolant temp switch 205F or 210F = helping to prevent an overheat on something "fluke-ish" like seized alternating bearing, broken engine belt, blown anti-freeze hose, etc.

All easy to do for NOT a lot of money.
Need some help????

My 370s have

EGT/Turbo boost gauge (ISSPRO turbocatur)
Loss of raw water alarms (super sensitive) alarmed
4 each high engine coolant temp switches 205F/210F alarmed (overkill:D)
7psi oil press switch.

You do not really need, oil pressure, tranny temp/pressure alarms.

FWIW, Bill D

let me know
 

captainlarry84

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I love gauges. So on my rig:
Tach
Oil pressure
Water temp
Volts
Transmission pressure
Pyrometer
FlowScan
Racor vacuum gauge

On the pyrometer isspro makes the best one:
www.isspro.com</SPAN>

Picture 029.jpg
 

BillD

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I love gauges. So on my rig:
Tach
Oil pressure
Water temp
Volts
Transmission pressure
Pyrometer
FlowScan
Racor vacuum gauge

On the pyrometer isspro makes the best one:
www.isspro.comhttp://www.isspro.com</SPAN></SPAN>

Larry, gauges are great BUT,
if you have a rookie @ the wheel, or you are busy navigating and not "staring" @ the gauges every second is your Yanmar "alarmed" with a light/buzzer/bell" if an engine parameter goes "south".

IMO blind eye engine over temp alarms are a must along with loss of raw water cooling flow unless the owner wants to "roll the dice" as I did with my 1st pr. of 370s! I did and I paid for it !!!:eek:

non alarmed EGT is fine because we follow trending increasing EGTs
 

CEShawn

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Even though they aren't easy to track down I really like FW Murphy gauges. I have gotten my oil pressure one already for my Cummins 6CTA. The nice thing with the Murphy gauges is you can add alarms to just about anything with their switches...

I have to say the exhaust pyro for sure.

Also the loss of cooling water circuit is a must. Do you know how far you can actually make it with a sea cock closed? I do, bonehead move but it happens to the best. Now whenever I close the seacock to my engine I put my engine key on it. To many trips back and forth, long nights working sometimes you forget.

I am surprised that no one mentioned boost air pressure, its cheaper and easy to run. Of course you can get a pyro/boost together.

I'd really like to add a flowscan, have had three of them in the past...
 

BillD

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Even though they aren't easy to track down I really like FW Murphy gauges. I have gotten my oil pressure one already for my Cummins 6CTA. The nice thing with the Murphy gauges is you can add alarms to just about anything with their switches...

I have to say the exhaust pyro for sure.

Also the loss of cooling water circuit is a must. Do you know how far you can actually make it with a sea cock closed? I do, bonehead move but it happens to the best. Now whenever I close the seacock to my engine I put my engine key on it. To many trips back and forth, long nights working sometimes you forget.

I am surprised that no one mentioned boost air pressure, its cheaper and easy to run. Of course you can get a pyro/boost together.

I'd really like to add a flowscan, have had three of them in the past...

I saw 1st hand what a Cummins 6BTA 370 looks like after running it @ 2200 rpm without raw water flowing through the engine for "reportedly" 5-10 mins.

Dock neighbor left the Charles River locks after 4th of July a few years ago.
Port engine seacock was closed. He was up in the marlin tower, (no alarms) took off with a line of boats heading north.
Guy in back of him noticed a funky plume out of the port side xhaust and race up next to him and waved something was up.

Owner slowed down to idle, engine temp was pegged @ 250F, alarm down below in the helm cabin was buzzing away.

Limped home, impeller cooked and the Cummins "off white paint" was roasted to a nice light dark brown. Not just around the turbo and bottom of the after cooler where it's normal but the whole engine!
Believe it or not the 370 had NO damage. ( I saw it, couldn't believe the engine was not damaged)
Local Cummins dealer came down, changed impeller, checked the engine over and repainted it back to "off white".

I've seen Murphy gauges used on coolant expansion tanks.

Important to note here is that when you lose raw water cooling to the engine you have a slight margin of time before a catastrophic overheat. The engine still has internal coolant flowing around.

Lose the internal engine anti-freeze coolant circulation from busted belt, frozen alternator bearing, blown coolant hose or busted clamp the engine burns up REAL FAST! particularly @ say 75% load cruise rpms.

FWIW
 
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CEShawn

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The other thing I never see monitored on smaller engines is oil temperature. Sort of surprised because I guess a few Volvo's have gotten eaten up by this issue. On my ship, I've seen two issues that cause a rise in oil temp first that led to issues.

These small engines though are really just that in a sense to small to be able to do anything when something happens. That doesnt mean that we should try or can't do anything to help things out.

One thing that always gets me when I was brand new out of school. I got a call from the chief one night to shut and engine down because of oil pressure. It was a Cat 3608 and oil pressure dropped to 70PSIG from 75-77PSIG. Sure enough it had a bearing failure. Well on a ship everything is controlled even the cooling water to the engine so everything is pretty much the same 24-7. I wouldn't have thought twice about the 5 or so PSIG pressure drop at that time. I mean look at our gauges you get MOST of the time from the manufacturer. Could you tell the difference in that? Its funny because sometimes when I hear about a small engine failure you will hear about multiple failures. You often wonder if some happened prior in its history.

That is one thing that scares me with my Cummins, when I come down to idle the pressure is so low, looks like 0-10 on the gauge. Sure some people have the 7PSIG alarm(I think). How can you tell when its time to rebuild based on oil pressure or if its just bad oil or there is an actual problem.

Again, I could write a book on thing I think about to the tenth degree while sleeping at night on a ship or a boat running 100 or 1000's miles out.
 

BillD

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The other thing I never see monitored on smaller engines is oil temperature. Sort of surprised because I guess a few Volvo's have gotten eaten up by this issue. On my ship, I've seen two issues that cause a rise in oil temp first that led to issues.

These small engines though are really just that in a sense to small to be able to do anything when something happens. That doesnt mean that we should try or can't do anything to help things out.

One thing that always gets me when I was brand new out of school. I got a call from the chief one night to shut and engine down because of oil pressure. It was a Cat 3608 and oil pressure dropped to 70PSIG from 75-77PSIG. Sure enough it had a bearing failure. Well on a ship everything is controlled even the cooling water to the engine so everything is pretty much the same 24-7. I wouldn't have thought twice about the 5 or so PSIG pressure drop at that time. I mean look at our gauges you get MOST of the time from the manufacturer. Could you tell the difference in that? Its funny because sometimes when I hear about a small engine failure you will hear about multiple failures. You often wonder if some happened prior in its history.

That is one thing that scares me with my Cummins, when I come down to idle the pressure is so low, looks like 0-10 on the gauge. Sure some people have the 7PSIG alarm(I think). How can you tell when its time to rebuild based on oil pressure or if its just bad oil or there is an actual problem.

Again, I could write a book on thing I think about to the tenth degree while sleeping at night on a ship or a boat running 100 or 1000's miles out.

Shawn,

You are an engineer on a ship. It makes you a WORRY WART !

I've followed/read every Cummins post by Tony and Paul Foulston on boatdiesel forum over the past 5 years.

Oil cooler failures, low oil pressure failures are just about NON existent on Cummins engines.

I read ONCE that a 6B or 6C had an oil cooler failure. Made a mess, nothing else.

Remember there are millions of mechanical 6Bs and 6Cs in world wide service in all industries.

Worry and alarm/monitor the real stuff that will ruin or shorten your 6CTAs life.

Overloading the engine, loss of cooling either raw water or anti-freeze, water backing in through the exhaust or a failed after cooler due to non maintenance allowing the combustion of a "nice salt mist".

Oil issues????? don't worry and don't stare at the dam oil gauge when throttling back to idle !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.:D
 

Tuna Pursuit

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Gear oil temp gauge is a must. I recommend a murhy switch gauge so you can hook it up to an audible alarm. It can save your gear. I also have pall filters on my gears & thermostatic valves but that is only necessary if you have a trolling valve.
 

CEShawn

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I bet you I look at gauges more than anyone else!

Let me ask you this, first time I've had a transmission pressure gauge... Whenever I go into idle it ramps up to 350-400+PSIG, is that normal? or should it be lower at idle compared to a higher speed? or is there a problem. I actually think I want to put on a new guage because I have my doubts as it pegs right out, so almost thinking when it gets any signal it just goes all the way...

Thanks...
 

Tuna Pursuit

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I bet you I look at gauges more than anyone else!

Let me ask you this, first time I've had a transmission pressure gauge... Whenever I go into idle it ramps up to 350-400+PSIG, is that normal? or should it be lower at idle compared to a higher speed? or is there a problem. I actually think I want to put on a new guage because I have my doubts as it pegs right out, so almost thinking when it gets any signal it just goes all the way...

Thanks...

350-400 should be the operating range in PSI. Like you say maybe a bad gauge or sending unit. The pressure gauges are good but if your steaming & you loose pressure the gear is toast that's why you need to monitor the gear oil temp. If the oil temp starts to rise you know you are about to fail & you can prevent smokin it.
 

Robert M

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Ok short of adding 10 gauges to monitor every possible temp, pressure etc. what should one due on a 6cta besides aftercooler maintenance. Oil change, filter changes. These posts scare the shit out of a first time diesel owner. He'll I could change and basically rebuild my old 454 's with little help. Diesel , well forget about it. It's French to me. I realize there all just motors, but come on .
 

BillD

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Ok short of adding 10 gauges to monitor every possible temp, pressure etc. what should one due on a 6cta besides aftercooler maintenance. Oil change, filter changes. These posts scare the shit out of a first time diesel owner. He'll I could change and basically rebuild my old 454 's with little help. Diesel , well forget about it. It's French to me. I realize there all just motors, but come on .

It otta scare the crap out of you !!!!
You are one hiccup away from a catastrophic engine failure !!!:confused:
 

captainlarry84

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Here is a few things

Some big things are:
  • Initial valve adjustment at 50 hours & then again at 500 plus. After that go my the specs. Tight valves do not make noise but cause more damage that loose ones. As motors break in the valves start to seat a little deeper which reduces valve stem clearance.
  • Change your anti freeze every other year.
  • Check your zinc pencils every 50 hours. Never put the olds ones back. Every boat is different. My Yanmar likes them at 80 hours. Zinc pencils are very cheap insurance to motor life.
  • Install Racor vacuum gauge & change your Racor often. 50 on a Racor is plenty. Remember you are constantly cleaning the fuel. On my Yanmar I am always pulling 20 GPH. At idle I return 19.5 gallons of filtered fuel at cruising speed about 10 Gallons get returned. Suction on an injector pump pulling thru a dirty filter can burn a pump out. I always carry at least 3 on the boat. They are cheap & top load very quickly. Also each trip shin a flashlight through the Racor bowl. In doing so the light will reflect different on water & fuel. If you see water crack the top and drain the bottom until you get clean fuel.
  • Always carry 1 gallon of clean fuel in a jug. On changing a Racor it is nice always top it off. Plus if you suck a tank dry. That gallon will bail you out of a long hard priming ordeal.
  • Know how to change your impeller and always carry a spare OEM impeller. Keep it wrap nice and tight so the spare does not dry out. Remember an old impeller is not a good spare impeller.
  • Keep a very mindful watch on Transmission oil coolers. Check the transmission fuel often to make sure that no water from a pin hole got in. On all of my boats and repowers if the transmission cooler does not have a zinc pencil. Have one made that does.
  • Lastly always tach your diesel out to WOT twice during the day. Once at the beginning and once on the way home. Make sure you are getting every RPM that the manufactures recommend.
  • Make sure your fan belt is tight but not to tight. On most boats it is only turning the alternator and the sweet water circulating pump. A belt to tight will wipe out the bearings in both early. A slightly loose belt is better that one too tight.
  • Every trip also grab the water feed hose to your stuffing box. Make sure it feel cold so you know water is going through it. Many times a piece of zinc pencil can break off and clog the feed which is deadly to bearing and stuffing box wear.
  • Lastly since day one I have always used Biobor on every fill up. Algae can be a real sleeper.
 

CEShawn

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Robert, its just a matter of this... A murphy gauge costs a little less than $100 right, figure another $50 to install it yourself. Each item you can add to yourself and monitor time to time could save you a costly failure down the road or can actually save you in maintenance cost. So why not take as many data points as possible for that failure? Why not if you can tweak your engine a little bit, watch for ways to prevent that, on fuel economy and everything else.

I have to say if you can rebuild a 454 you have to be able to rebuild any engine, just take a minute read a shop manual and be done with it.

Think of what your boat would be like with a 454 in it or a 502. God my dad almost bought a 36' flybridge with twin 502's I think they were....

I remember in our 32 Express we moved from 454's 340HP to Yanmar 350HP. We went from a 22-24kt cruise at 30GPH to about a 24kt cruise at 16-18GPH...
 
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