Exploring the "New Build Option"

Rockasauras

Captain
Joined
Nov 9, 2013
Posts
873
Likes
313
Location
OCEAN CITY
...Been exploring the notion of having a 30' something DE boat built. Prior to this venture I was unaware that there were a multitude of finishers who either build their own or finish other makers hulls. This could be advantageous where cost is the consideration yet maybe not so good for the ambivalent minded. My question is multi layered...

(1) Timely fashion: Builders/finishers who are known for keeping to schedule and finishing as promised ?

(2) Which builders/finishers are using more fiberglass or composite materials in their builds (and does it matter) ie., bulkheads, decks, house etc., ?

(3)Regarding reputation, which transcends to resale value would there be a preferred builders/finisher you would recommend ?

PM would work if you prefer not to post it. Thanks for your suggestions !
 

captjohn

Captain
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Posts
866
Likes
423
Age
64
Location
Delray Beach, FL
Boat Make
Henriques
With the used boat market as weak as it is, buying new just doesn't make much sense unless your, "flush with cash". If your dead set about buying new, be prepared for it to cost more than your original estimate. I would set aside 10 to 20% for unexpected cost. And be prepared to hold on to the boat for several years, depreciation on a new boat can be brutal! Good luck.
 

Rockasauras

Captain
Joined
Nov 9, 2013
Posts
873
Likes
313
Location
OCEAN CITY
noted...

With the used boat market as weak as it is, buying new just doesn't make much sense unless your, "flush with cash". If your dead set about buying new, be prepared for it to cost more than your original estimate. I would set aside 10 to 20% for unexpected cost. And be prepared to hold on to the boat for several years, depreciation on a new boat can be brutal! Good luck.

I have an eye on a previously owned vessel too and going to use responses to my thread in consideration to formulating an offer. Which brings me to another question ...

Barring all the details would it be too insulting to come in and offer 20% under the asking price for a used vessel ?
 

gregs

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Posts
105
Likes
34
Location
Annapolis, MD
Boat Make
Flowers 38
I went thru the process you are going thru. 4 things made the choice easy for us. 1st was we intend to keep this boat for 15years so new should be fairly cost effective. 2nd we could not find what we really wanted on the used market and living with something for 15years that was not what we really wanted did not seem reasonable. 3rd was we could build new and it would be significantly lighter than the older stick built. 4th was the engine choice as we could pick something specific for our needs. And I guess there is a fifth in that we had built new before and kept the boat for 12 years and 50,000 nm and had no troubles other than normal maintenance. A fishing boat with less systems I would not be as fussy but a full on cruising boat with all the systems is I think a different matter.
 

captjohn

Captain
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Posts
866
Likes
423
Age
64
Location
Delray Beach, FL
Boat Make
Henriques
You should make an offer based on what the boat is really worth, not on the asking price minus some number. Most sellers are willing to haggle some, but at some point, to the seller, it's cheaper to keep it rather than give it away. Your comparison of values needs to be against boats in the same condition, age, same equipment, same hours, ect, or close enough. Trying to compare one boat in good condition at a higher price, to that of a "beaters" in need of lots of work and cash is not an apples to apples comparison, and the owner will probably know that. Granted there are some sellers that are crazy. But if you hit a seller who is asking a reasonable price, with a silly offer, as if he was one step away from Chapter 11, he may show you the door, because, in his eyes, he's wasting his time on you, your not a real buyer, and any deal with you may run into all kinds of problems (making a big deal out of minor findings on a survey, problems getting financing and wanting to lower the price, the list goes on and on, it's not much fun). No seller wants to deal with dreamers. I've been in this position myself, and refused to accept counter offers because of a very low first offer. Once you've been through the ringer the first time, you won't go there again. Good luck.
 

chortle

Captain
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Posts
999
Likes
636
Location
Annapolis, MD
Boat Make
Herreshoff Coquina, 1972 Jarvis Newman 36, PT11
Ask what you think the boat is worth or what you can afford. If you have a good reason to believe your price is more realistic be prepared to back up that assertion with some logical reasons. If your price or logic does not align with what the seller thinks the boat is worth then move on. Maybe his price is right or yours is more realistic but at the end of the day there are lot's of boats out there. There will always be another pretty girl at the next bus stop. A "previously loved" boat is usually the best way to go unless you plan to make a long term commitment or have special needs like GREGS, then a custom build makes a lot of sense. A well maintained older boat has a lot value and you will usually lose less money in that deal than in any other boat you buy. Post some specifics about what you are looking at and what you want and you will find some good info on this site.
 

Toolate

Admiral
Joined
Aug 6, 2013
Posts
6,571
Likes
2,493
Location
Southwestern CT
First Name
Ben
Boat Make
1998 36' Sabre Express CAT 3116TA's, 2015 ROS Scotia 16 Etec 50
You should make an offer based on what the boat is really worth, not on the asking price minus some number. Most sellers are willing to haggle some, but at some point, to the seller, it's cheaper to keep it rather than give it away. Your comparison of values needs to be against boats in the same condition, age, same equipment, same hours, ect, or close enough. Trying to compare one boat in good condition at a higher price, to that of a "beaters" in need of lots of work and cash is not an apples to apples comparison, and the owner will probably know that. Granted there are some sellers that are crazy. But if you hit a seller who is asking a reasonable price, with a silly offer, as if he was one step away from Chapter 11, he may show you the door, because, in his eyes, he's wasting his time on you, your not a real buyer, and any deal with you may run into all kinds of problems (making a big deal out of minor findings on a survey, problems getting financing and wanting to lower the price, the list goes on and on, it's not much fun). No seller wants to deal with dreamers. I've been in this position myself, and refused to accept counter offers because of a very low first offer. Once you've been through the ringer the first time, you won't go there again. Good luck.

The only counter point to this well written response is that today, in my opinion anyway, since the whole worlds economy fell apart a few years ago, a boat (or house or car) is worth what a buyer will pay for it. Each item is so different and the local market, time of year, financial status of buyer and seller, interest rates and even the stock market/economy (not the same thing but often confused) can have an instantaneous impact on what a boat will go for. You may have 5 comps but if a boat has sat for a while and the winter is coming you might get it for 20% below the comps. Timing.

Also, a survey, although its a bit of a leap of faith because you may spend the $ to find something that ruins the sale, is worth it. If you can agree on a number and then the value of the repairs after a survey (easier said than done) then you can make a deal based on some real-ish numbers.

My advice is to offer what you want to pay and see what they say. No sense in building a big case either way because the seller is either going to be interested in negotiating a bit or not. People are making offers at 60% of asking price on houses all over the place here. Boats I think would be worse.
 

Powderpro

Admiral
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Posts
4,207
Likes
4,381
Location
The Ocean
Website
www.oneilboats.com
Boat Make
O'Neil
...Been exploring the notion of having a 30' something DE boat built. Prior to this venture I was unaware that there were a multitude of finishers who either build their own or finish other makers hulls. This could be advantageous where cost is the consideration yet maybe not so good for the ambivalent minded. My question is multi layered...

(1) Timely fashion: Builders/finishers who are known for keeping to schedule and finishing as promised ?

(2) Which builders/finishers are using more fiberglass or composite materials in their builds (and does it matter) ie., bulkheads, decks, house etc., ?

(3)Regarding reputation, which transcends to resale value would there be a preferred builders/finisher you would recommend ?

PM would work if you prefer not to post it. Thanks for your suggestions !

You say 30' something... I would buy/build as big of a boat as you can afford. If going new, I would look at a 33 Flowers, 34 Calvin Beal, 34/36 H&H, 35 Duffy, 36 Calvin Beal, or 36 Flowers. These hulls push easily, are great proven designs built by reputable, experienced builders. Any of these boats would go real nice with 370hp-425hp and be very efficient. Unless you are a speed demon or the boat is really heavy, around 400hp is a great engine for the 33'-36' class. If you want a 20 knot cruise, you will need 500hp. I think most builders will build/finish the boat according to what you want to spend. Building with plywood/wood will be cheaper, but I think composite core materials makes a better, quieter, more rigid boat. I've built new boats with wood and with composite core material like Nidacore. I think the Nidacore style core is far superior to wood, but the material costs a lot more. If you plan on keeping the boat for a long while and just want to enjoy the boat and not do a bunch of repairs, then go with a new build. Good luck.
 
Last edited:

Stinkpot

Commander
Joined
Dec 2, 2011
Posts
256
Likes
148
Location
Cape Cod Canal
Boat Make
36' Calvin Beal
That's 20% WITHOUT all the new ideas and changes you make / add along the way; those are extra. Also add 50% of the quoted time to complete, because the guy in line before you just thought of a bunch of new ideas to add to his boat...

DON'T pay a builder / finisher time-based payments! Pay so much when engine is set, so much when rough interior is done, systems roughed in, etc... Agree to final payment after successful sea trials.

Good luck with the decision!


With the used boat market as weak as it is, buying new just doesn't make much sense unless your, "flush with cash". If your dead set about buying new, be prepared for it to cost more than your original estimate. I would set aside 10 to 20% for unexpected cost. And be prepared to hold on to the boat for several years, depreciation on a new boat can be brutal! Good luck.
 
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Posts
505
Likes
229
Location
Mid-coast Maine
Boat Make
Jarvis Newman 36
An option might be reworking a used boat with a solid hull and great running system. It would allow you to customize a bit and save some $ depending on what you do. A very comprehensive survey and including the builder/refinisher in the selection once you are ready might be a good idea. Our experience has been terrific with Farrin's doing our rebuild. Our boat will look almost new. Good luck.
 

petrel

Rear Admiral
Joined
Dec 17, 2011
Posts
1,583
Likes
382
Location
NC
Boat Make
56' DMR, 31' BHM
How long have they been working on her now?
 

Rockasauras

Captain
Joined
Nov 9, 2013
Posts
873
Likes
313
Location
OCEAN CITY
An option might be reworking a used boat with a solid hull and great running system. It would allow you to customize a bit and save some $ depending on what you do. A very comprehensive survey and including the builder/refinisher in the selection once you are ready might be a good idea. Our experience has been terrific with Farrin's doing our rebuild. Our boat will look almost new. Good luck.

This is a suggestion I am on the fence with, pending the outcome of a possible offer on a used vessel. It is difficult to arrive at a reasonable offer when you have only asking prices as a guide. The ask almost always differs then the actual sell price and being a relatively new fan of the downeast scene I have been pouring over different forums and boat listings for info so as not to overpay for a boat that will need some updating down the road. I do have a surveyor in mind if I arrive at the offer on the used boat. If not I am preparing by getting some quotes on a new build...thanks for your insight !
 

plowin

Rear Admiral
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Posts
2,058
Likes
2,295
Location
Newbury
Boat Make
33' flowers
There is no doubt that you will save a bundle of money buying a used boat and now is a great time to pick one up but with that being said
I found that having a downeast boat built to be a pleasant,easy and very satisfying experience. I would recommend/insist that you go meet the builder discuss your desires and get to know one another. It may sound crazy but once you have done that I believe you will better understand where each of you are personally and from a business standpoint.
I will also say that making a need list and a want list will also be very helpful to you. Almost always delays in builds of any kind come from unplanned changes and not builders dragging there feet. It takes three times the money and time to make a change, know what you want! It will be a whole lot easier determining what you want if you have had a boat previously and know what you loved and what you hated. Adding 10% to the cost and time are both good ideas but if you make no changes and stay with the plan you should be very close to your delivery date. Ask questions and know whats included in the price and whats not. You will/could be surprised what is not included. For instance price out an engine look at what is not included in that price, may companies are going a la carte so that there engine price looks better but by the time your done with panels,controls,drives,valves, mounts and sea trials you would/could be very irritated. Ask questions and remember the builder no more wants you to be unhappy than you do.
These guys do this for a living and taking there advice on things is almost always the right thing to do but if you have something you want done for a particular reason in your fishery or enjoyment than do it, they don't know everything.
For what it is worth my boat was built and delivered exactly on time but few if any changes were made and most were to simplify or resolve a future issue down the line which is different than ripping something out and adding something different.
Thanks again to Ken, David and all the guys up at Flowers Boatworks in Walpole Maine for a pleasant and enjoyable experience! Good luck with your build you will love it.


Sorry.couple more things to consider, the more energy and input that you have about your build the more they will have and you will always know where the shop is on your project. I found that the guys were more than accommodating when you wanted to stop by and check out the progress and to be honest with you it gave me piece of mind that the work was being done as I was told it would be.It sure made releasing the money easy when I was called for another installment for the next phase of the project. When they make a request for funds the quicker you release them the more likely they are to work on your project when they walk into the shop Monday morning, not hard to figure that one out. In the end I felt as though they built a boat for themselves as much as a boat for me. Its all about relationships, you just have to find the builder that "works" for you.
 
Last edited:

Bill

Founder
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Posts
5,764
Likes
6,266
Location
Hull, Ma
Boat Make
27 Terry Jason
You should contact Travis at OEM Marine ( F/V First Team), roomer has it he is designing the "30 OEM"
 

Rockasauras

Captain
Joined
Nov 9, 2013
Posts
873
Likes
313
Location
OCEAN CITY
Anyone experienced ride on 33 Flowers ?

...Been exploring the notion of having a 30' something DE boat built. Prior to this venture I was unaware that there were a multitude of finishers who either build their own or finish other makers hulls. This could be advantageous where cost is the consideration yet maybe not so good for the ambivalent minded. My question is multi layered...

(1) Timely fashion: Builders/finishers who are known for keeping to schedule and finishing as promised ?

(2) Which builders/finishers are using more fiberglass or composite materials in their builds (and does it matter) ie., bulkheads, decks, house etc., ?

(3)Regarding reputation, which transcends to resale value would there be a preferred builders/finisher you would recommend ?

PM would work if you prefer not to post it. Thanks for your suggestions !

Anybody have any input about 33 Flowers ?
 
Top Bottom