? for F/V first team or any other Race boats

F/V First Team

Admiral
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
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Narnia
Website
www.otisenterprisesmarine.com
Boat Make
Northern Bay 36 - Modified
Hey all,

Just cursious about the boats, i would presume they have to be working boats. Are hull modifications allowed ?

Ok so this is a can of worms.

You would presume wrong, the boat does not have to be a "working boat" however it does need to follow some guidelines. Here are the rules that we have currently:

[FONT=&quot]START: You should be in the “START AREA†two races before yours. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]For the start, entrants should be at idle and line up with the “START BOATâ€, increase speed with the “START BOAT†who will drop the flag when the entrant’s bows are line up with them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]FALSE START: The “STARTER†will circle the flag over his head and the “START BOAT†captain will call “FALSE START†on the radio. Boats will return to the “START AREA†and try again.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Two “FALSE STARTS†by the same boat means disqualification. No “SAND BAGGING†will be tolerated.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The following Rules are guidelines and may be changed at the discretion of the Oversight Committee.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Hull type must be conventional “LOBSTER BOAT†design with single screw.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Any type of material construction is permitted: wood, fiberglass, aluminum, etc.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]All boats must be powered with an inboard engine with full keel and skeg. Exception: Work Boat Classes under 24 feet in length.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]No SPADE RUDDERS or SURFACE DRIVES. Trim tabs are not to be used and must be in the neutral position during a race.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Spray rails, lifting strakes and rolling chocks are allowed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]All floorboards, deck hatches and bulkhead panels must be on board or in place.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Transducers, keel pipes, scanner tubes, cages, etc, may be removed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Only one window may be open (NOT REMOVED) while racing.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]ALL BOATS[/FONT][FONT=&quot] must have a minimum of two crewmembers on board, including the skipper.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Boats must be operated from the main bulkhead steering station.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Davits and snatch blocks need not be in place, but must be on board.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Boats must be fully equipped with all required U.S. Coast Guard safety equipment.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13) [/FONT][FONT=&quot] Life jackets or vests must be worn by all crew members while racing.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]All boats must be equipped with a hauler and be able to haul.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Fuel shall be pump type, with NO NITROUS OXIDE OR PROPANE SYSTEMS.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]ALL BOATS MUST BE EQUIPPED WITH A THROTTLE DOWN DEVICE OR KILL SWITCH.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]UNSPORTSMAN LIKE CONDUCT [/FONT][FONT=&quot]as judged by the Race Committee could result in disqualification[/FONT]
So let's start picking this apart, phase one: "[FONT=&quot]Hull type must be conventional “LOBSTER BOAT†design with single screw." & "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]All boats must be powered with an inboard engine with full keel and skeg.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]" What is a conventional design? Well that could be a dory or a Friendship Sloop if one wanted to argue the matter, however it has become a monohull with a keel and skeg. Now based on that what do we consider to be a keel and skeg? There is a boat out there with a keel that certainly is deep enough to be considered a "full keel" however it is very short, probably less than 4 feet linearly - obviously not a "working" boat but is permitted to run (and currently the fastest one out there). There is another vessel with a modified bottom, steps were cast into this particular one. There is another which started life as a deep-V and has had a skeg and keel added. So the short answer is "yes" hull modifications are allowed. Designs will be considered individually. Safety is paramount.

"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]All floorboards, deck hatches and bulkhead panels must be on board or in place.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]" You would not believe how many engine boxes are removed and put on the dock, other boats, anyplace where they won't sink. Totally permitted by the rules.

"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Only one window may be open (NOT REMOVED) while racing.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]" This little jewel was added when one boat (I believe it was RED in color) cut the top off to lighten the vessel and reduce wind drag to win a race. We don't allow that anymore, however this past year a black boat which was the same make as the other did compete with no windshield, however it started the season that way - it was not a half-way through the season modification (or the last race like another example) so it was permitted.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"Davits and snatch blocks need not be in place, but must be on board."[/FONT] & "[FONT=&quot]All boats must be equipped with a hauler and be able to haul.[/FONT]" There have been some pretty interesting concepts with these over the years.

"[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Boats must be fully equipped with all required U.S. Coast Guard safety equipment.[/FONT]" & "[FONT=&quot]Life jackets or vests must be worn by all crew members while racing.[/FONT]" Come on, this is just common sense.

"[FONT=&quot]ALL BOATS MUST BE EQUIPPED WITH A THROTTLE DOWN DEVICE OR KILL SWITCH.[/FONT]" I pushed hard to have any vessel able to do over 30 mph be REQUIRED to have a kill switch. Kill switch being something that shuts the engine down, not just a throttle down device (which can be a string tied to the throttle handle and someone's wrist or a bungee cord fastened to the bulkhead with a loop over the throttle handle so it pops back when released). I have my own boat hooked up with a kill switch, it was that way from the beginning and is the way I normally shut down the engine, it just activates the fuel shut off solenoid on the pump. Simple, safe and effective. And yes, there was a time where it turned the engine off during a race (total face palm moment on my part, engine shut down just as the start boat started going ahead, DOH!) so it is pretty dang effective. This however was overruled since the majority of people couldn't figure out how to put them in-line with their current system.

"[FONT=&quot]UNSPORTSMAN LIKE CONDUCT [/FONT][FONT=&quot]as judged by the Race Committee could result in disqualification" Basically don't be an ass. True story: One race got called for a false start by someone, and while returning to the start line one over anxious boat spun nearby the start boat, inadvertently splashing some water aboard the start boat. Both skippers were "hot heads", words were exchanged, racer was ejected (even though the false start wasn't because of them) and they left in a huff. During the trip home they hit a ledge and started taking on water, called the CG, decided that it wasn't too bad and headed on to port without notifying the CG. CG got on scene, no boat, search started, boat was found in port, CG investigated, racer had a few brews after docking the vessel but prior to the CG arriving, CG administered a test and the skipper was bagged for OUI. So, with the butterfly effect rational it's best not to be an ass about things, if something doesn't go your way take a step back and reflect on the situation. It's just a plastic trophy and some bragging rights guys - at the end of the day we all have to live with ourselves.

I hope this has helped in some way/shape/form. If anyone has any other questions please do not hesitate to ask. :)
[/FONT]
 

gmarine25

Lieutenant
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Posts
17
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0
Good info first team. This is kind of off topic: How do you get your boat to go 38mph (33 knots?) with only 410 horsepower? Is your boat quite light, or are NB 36s just that fast?
 

jerseysportfisher

Rear Admiral
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Posts
1,181
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149
Location
Communist part of NJ
Boat Make
Bertram 33SF
Ok so this is a can of worms.

You would presume wrong, the boat does not have to be a "working boat" however it does need to follow some guidelines. Here are the rules that we have currently:

[FONT=&quot]START: You should be in the “START AREA†two races before yours. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]For the start, entrants should be at idle and line up with the “START BOATâ€, increase speed with the “START BOAT†who will drop the flag when the entrant’s bows are line up with them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]FALSE START: The “STARTER†will circle the flag over his head and the “START BOAT†captain will call “FALSE START†on the radio. Boats will return to the “START AREA†and try again.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Two “FALSE STARTS†by the same boat means disqualification. No “SAND BAGGING†will be tolerated.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The following Rules are guidelines and may be changed at the discretion of the Oversight Committee.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Hull type must be conventional “LOBSTER BOAT†design with single screw.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Any type of material construction is permitted: wood, fiberglass, aluminum, etc.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]All boats must be powered with an inboard engine with full keel and skeg. Exception: Work Boat Classes under 24 feet in length.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]No SPADE RUDDERS or SURFACE DRIVES. Trim tabs are not to be used and must be in the neutral position during a race.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Spray rails, lifting strakes and rolling chocks are allowed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]All floorboards, deck hatches and bulkhead panels must be on board or in place.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Transducers, keel pipes, scanner tubes, cages, etc, may be removed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Only one window may be open (NOT REMOVED) while racing.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]ALL BOATS[/FONT][FONT=&quot] must have a minimum of two crewmembers on board, including the skipper.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Boats must be operated from the main bulkhead steering station.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Davits and snatch blocks need not be in place, but must be on board.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Boats must be fully equipped with all required U.S. Coast Guard safety equipment.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13) [/FONT][FONT=&quot] Life jackets or vests must be worn by all crew members while racing.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]All boats must be equipped with a hauler and be able to haul.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Fuel shall be pump type, with NO NITROUS OXIDE OR PROPANE SYSTEMS.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]ALL BOATS MUST BE EQUIPPED WITH A THROTTLE DOWN DEVICE OR KILL SWITCH.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]UNSPORTSMAN LIKE CONDUCT [/FONT][FONT=&quot]as judged by the Race Committee could result in disqualification[/FONT]
So let's start picking this apart, phase one: "[FONT=&quot]Hull type must be conventional “LOBSTER BOAT†design with single screw." & "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]All boats must be powered with an inboard engine with full keel and skeg.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]" What is a conventional design? Well that could be a dory or a Friendship Sloop if one wanted to argue the matter, however it has become a monohull with a keel and skeg. Now based on that what do we consider to be a keel and skeg? There is a boat out there with a keel that certainly is deep enough to be considered a "full keel" however it is very short, probably less than 4 feet linearly - obviously not a "working" boat but is permitted to run (and currently the fastest one out there). There is another vessel with a modified bottom, steps were cast into this particular one. There is another which started life as a deep-V and has had a skeg and keel added. So the short answer is "yes" hull modifications are allowed. Designs will be considered individually. Safety is paramount.

"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]All floorboards, deck hatches and bulkhead panels must be on board or in place.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]" You would not believe how many engine boxes are removed and put on the dock, other boats, anyplace where they won't sink. Totally permitted by the rules.

"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Only one window may be open (NOT REMOVED) while racing.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]" This little jewel was added when one boat (I believe it was RED in color) cut the top off to lighten the vessel and reduce wind drag to win a race. We don't allow that anymore, however this past year a black boat which was the same make as the other did compete with no windshield, however it started the season that way - it was not a half-way through the season modification (or the last race like another example) so it was permitted.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"Davits and snatch blocks need not be in place, but must be on board."[/FONT] & "[FONT=&quot]All boats must be equipped with a hauler and be able to haul.[/FONT]" There have been some pretty interesting concepts with these over the years.

"[FONT=&quot]Boats must be fully equipped with all required U.S. Coast Guard safety equipment.[/FONT]" & "[FONT=&quot]Life jackets or vests must be worn by all crew members while racing.[/FONT]" Come on, this is just common sense.

"[FONT=&quot]ALL BOATS MUST BE EQUIPPED WITH A THROTTLE DOWN DEVICE OR KILL SWITCH.[/FONT]" I pushed hard to have any vessel able to do over 30 mph be REQUIRED to have a kill switch. Kill switch being something that shuts the engine down, not just a throttle down device (which can be a string tied to the throttle handle and someone's wrist or a bungee cord fastened to the bulkhead with a loop over the throttle handle so it pops back when released). I have my own boat hooked up with a kill switch, it was that way from the beginning and is the way I normally shut down the engine, it just activates the fuel shut off solenoid on the pump. Simple, safe and effective. And yes, there was a time where it turned the engine off during a race (total face palm moment on my part, engine shut down just as the start boat started going ahead, DOH!) so it is pretty dang effective. This however was overruled since the majority of people couldn't figure out how to put them in-line with their current system.

"[FONT=&quot]UNSPORTSMAN LIKE CONDUCT [/FONT][FONT=&quot]as judged by the Race Committee could result in disqualification" Basically don't be an ass. True story: One race got called for a false start by someone, and while returning to the start line one over anxious boat spun nearby the start boat, inadvertently splashing some water aboard the start boat. Both skippers were "hot heads", words were exchanged, racer was ejected (even though the false start wasn't because of them) and they left in a huff. During the trip home they hit a ledge and started taking on water, called the CG, decided that it wasn't too bad and headed on to port without notifying the CG. CG got on scene, no boat, search started, boat was found in port, CG investigated, racer had a few brews after docking the vessel but prior to the CG arriving, CG administered a test and the skipper was bagged for OUI. So, with the butterfly effect rational it's best not to be an ass about things, if something doesn't go your way take a step back and reflect on the situation. It's just a plastic trophy and some bragging rights guys - at the end of the day we all have to live with ourselves.

I hope this has helped in some way/shape/form. If anyone has any other questions please do not hesitate to ask. :)
[/FONT]
Very interesting, thanks for the info. So they don't let you run arnesons and no spray. Hell its ulmost like unlimited class, run what you brung.
 

F/V First Team

Admiral
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Posts
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Narnia
Website
www.otisenterprisesmarine.com
Boat Make
Northern Bay 36 - Modified
Very interesting, thanks for the info. So they don't let you run arnesons and no spray. Hell its ulmost like unlimited class, run what you brung.
arnesons?

Gas Class E is pretty much an open class as far as wacky wild stuff, that's the only class where we allow superchargers and alcohol engines. The boat that competes in that class is 30' long and weighs 1,800 lbs with engine.

Workboat? Of course not. But it is fast and it is loud and for what it is, handles quite well (even in reverse).
 

Downeaster

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Posts
229
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14
Location
Jonesport USA
The rules are hard to get a handle on until you realize that they are there to limit the 'enhancements' to certain areas. If you qualify to race in the competitive classes, no boat from away will ever win a thing unless the locals don't enter or they breakdown. Won't happen and you'll be surprised by how badly you're beaten.

If one wants to go fast, the single, most important thing you need is light weight. Very few winning boats weren't designed to do that even before the build stared - if not the design itself, then certainly the layup schedule.

Finally, unless you're a close family member, asking someone how they do it is a waste of breath.
 

F/V First Team

Admiral
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Posts
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Location
Narnia
Website
www.otisenterprisesmarine.com
Boat Make
Northern Bay 36 - Modified
No idea what Starlight Express weighs, but I suspect it isn't all that "light" and she goes plenty fast. Even holds that "workboat" title. But I don't want to feed it, I bet she's hungry.
 

F/V First Team

Admiral
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Posts
6,146
Likes
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Location
Narnia
Website
www.otisenterprisesmarine.com
Boat Make
Northern Bay 36 - Modified
yeah, no such luck with the surface drives.

yes solid glass hull, the only way to fly in my book. dont have to worry so much about hitting a north atlantic speed bump that way.
 
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