Gen cat permit question

Boatliftman

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I think I know the answer already but is their any way to get a gen category permit and a charter boat permit
It would make sense when guys don't have charter they can rod and reel with no fares and sell there catch???
Thanks
 

Boatliftman

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I understand that but could I still put a gen category permit it to rod and reel a d greenstick tuna comm?
 

greg

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No, you can only be in one category. But the charter/headboat lets you do both.

Just to be clear, with a chb you can fish under either the angling cat rules OR the general cat rules. You just can't do both in one trip.

So even if you have no fares aboard, you can catch 73"+ fish for sale (assuming you have a landing permit).

It's the best of both worlds, but you do need a captains license, and you would be wise to be licensed to charter in your state and have charter insurance.

If you also fish commercially, you will need safety gear and comm insurance. If you have a mate or deckhand, that is a separate endorsement.

If you want to fish for mahi or wahoo, you will need a permit from sero (even just for charter). If you want to catch cod or bluefish or squid or a dozen other fish in federal waters you will need permits from Nero.

Both Nero and sero will require logbooks and catch reports. Your state will want quarterly tax reports.

Aren't you glad you asked? ;)
 
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Boatliftman

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Thanks for the info guys
You answered most all my questions I'm glad I asked as I thought I could only tuna fish under gen cat with a gen cat permit I did not know if there are no fares I could fish commercial with a charter/headboat permit
Thanks
 

greg

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Thanks for the info guys
You answered most all my questions I'm glad I asked as I thought I could only tuna fish under gen cat with a gen cat permit I did not know if there are no fares I could fish commercial with a charter/headboat permit
Thanks

I was keeping it simple for the sake of typing, but you can actually sell the tuna you catch with fares on board as well. Its a complicated, twisted set of rules but they do allow you to sell tuna even if its a charter. Conditions apply.

Also you can fish recreationally with no fares on board.

The really good thing is you can still target and retain sbft, sharks and billfish, which you couldn't do with a gen cat permit.
 

Frigate

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To add to what Greg said. With a gen cat permit you can fish in tournaments that fish for sbft, sharks and billfish if the tournament is registered with NMFS. You have better get a copy of NMFS's paper work saying it is registered from the tournament and keep it on the boat.

If you get fisherty permits other the HMS Permit you will need a NMFS Operator's Permit. Read the application very carefully as to what happens if you screw up.

NERO Fisheries Permits and Operator's Permits are free. SERO Fisheries Permits cost $25.00 for the first permit and $10.00 for each additional permit and $50.00 for the Operator's Permit.

If you want to proceed with what was brought up above then anal retentive is not just two words in your vocabulary it is an operational mode.
 

Boatliftman

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I really have no intention at all to charter just comm fish tuna and tiles but at the same time I want to be able to fish all the local shark billfish and tuna tournaments
Does makin the boat a charter make sense or just go Gen Cat if I can fish tournaments under a gen category permit?
 

greg

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I really have no intention at all to charter just comm fish tuna and tiles but at the same time I want to be able to fish all the local shark billfish and tuna tournaments
Does makin the boat a charter make sense or just go Gen Cat if I can fish tournaments under a gen category permit?

If fishing an nmfs sanctioned tourney, you get an exemption to the no shark rule, but it has to be sanctioned (tourney has to apply and register).

I'm not sure about tuna tournies. Call one and ask. You may have to live with the >73" rule for bft, but frankly a sbft isn't going to win a tournie anyway. You can still fish for BAYS tuna on a gen permit as well.

Tilefish are a separate permit from nero. Only open access is available (500 pounds whole per trip).

Sounds like you would be fine with a gen cat permit.
 

Boatliftman

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Thanks again guys
I don't understand the mate/deckhand endorsement
Does the mate need a separate ticket of sorts or does the mate/deckhand endorsement go on the boats permit?
I don't rememeber ever having to get anything when I worked on other boats tuna fishing which leads me to believe the boat has the endorsement?
Thanks again guys you are saving me a ton of research
By trade I run a size able marine construction n pile driving company if any one ever has questions for me I would be happy to return the favor
Tight lines
Fred
 

greg

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Thanks again guys
I don't understand the mate/deckhand endorsement
Does the mate need a separate ticket of sorts or does the mate/deckhand endorsement go on the boats permit?
I don't rememeber ever having to get anything when I worked on other boats tuna fishing which leads me to believe the boat has the endorsement?
Thanks again guys you are saving me a ton of research
By trade I run a size able marine construction n pile driving company if any one ever has questions for me I would be happy to return the favor
Tight lines
Fred

Sorry that wasn't clear. I meant an endorsement to your insurance policy. Typical insurance policies, even those with a charter endorsement, won't cover crew.

Fishing is a regulated industry. If a crew member is injured, you are responsible not only for the hospital costs "care", but their living expenses as well (I think the term is maintenance, but not certain).

Anyway, you need an explicit rider or endorsement to cover them.

I didn't mean the mates needed a license or mmc.
 

greg

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The term I was hunting for is [FONT=&quot]"maintenance and curing”. From something posted elsewhere:

[/FONT]What is Maintenance and Cure?

Many Passenger Vessel Owners employ crewmembers or mates in their charter business, but few understand the legal responsibilities they have to their crew employees under Federal Maritime Law.

Charter Captains understand the liability exposure they have to their passengers. If you also employ another captain or mate, you have another liability exposure that could be potentially greater than that to your passengers.

As a vessel owner and employer, your liability for injury to your crew is your obligation under federal maritime law to provide;

a. Maintenance and Cure to an injured crewmember;
b. A warranty of seaworthiness of your vessel;
c. Liability under the Federal Statute Known as the Jones Act;

This article will focus on the Federal Law of Maintenance and Cure and what it means to Charter boat owners.

If you own land based business you cover injuries to your employees through a State Workers Compensation policy. Maintenance and Cure is a Federal Statute and unlike workers compensation, it is designed to cover injuries to maritime employees.

The obligation of a vessel owner to provide Maintenance and Cure is a result of the employment of a crewmember, and applies equally to owners of all vessels, including charter vessels, yachts, cargo vessels and commercial fishing vessels. The right to Maintenance and Cure exists regardless of vessel owner fault or negligence. Thus, if a member of the crew is injured or becomes ill "in the service of the vessel", the obligation of the vessel owner to provide Maintenance and Cure arises automatically.

Maintenance is food and lodging; Cure is medical care, covering a broad spectrum of hospital and related medical costs, including rehabilitation. In addition to Maintenance and Cure, the crewmember has a right to unearned wages for the contract period for which he or she signed on. Eligibility requires satisfying the dual criteria of (1) establishing "seaman" status and (2) proving that the injury manifested itself as a consequence of the crewmember's being "in service of the vessel".

Today, the role of seaman is broadly defined and thus any person who is on board a charter boat "in the service of the vessel" is eligible for Maintenance and Cure. Any mate would qualify. This can include mates who work as subcontractors or who work on several different charter boats during a season, or mates who work for tips only.

Under the Maintenance provision, the vessel owner is obligated to provide the crewmember with sufficient compensation to supply him or her with food and lodging during his or her medical care. The Cure provision is medical care. The crewmember is entitled to Cure from the time he or she pays for, or incurs expenses for, medicines and related treatment. The vessels owner's obligation continues as long as medical treatment will improve the crewmember's condition.

The vessel owner has few defenses to crew claims, since the obligation does not depend on fault. As a general rule, it is considered better to err on the side of payment because of the traditional liberality displayed by courts toward crew members and because nonpayment may create additional legal costs.

In certain circumstances recovery by a crew member may be denied if at the inception of employment the crew member intentionally concealed an injury, or the cause of an injury was the crew member's own willful misbehavior, deliberate act or indiscretion.

For more information on Maintenance and crew of Jones Act, here are some useful links:

www.1800jonesact.com/maintenance-and-cure
www.jonesactlaw.com/practice_areas/maintenance-and-cure

 
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