How do you install your wheel?

OLD BAY

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I went from this:
old-bay-albums-wasque-32-picture632-image.jpg

To This:
old-bay-albums-wasque-32-picture650-image.jpg



Same wheel, still has life in her per the propscan shop, but waaay out of whack initially. Now all fixed.

Anyway, they install procedure is to use valve stem compound to prep the shaft and wheel for "mating" the shaft to the wheel. I've never done that before, but sounds like a good idea. It got me thinking: "are there other tips I should know"?
 
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lobstercatcher

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Never heard of that method. hows it done?

I just slide the wheel on without a key. Mark it then install the wheel with a key. A loose wheel or a wheel on tight but sitting on the key can cause vibration or worse.
 

captainlarry84

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Glad you save your wheel. But only time will tell. The proper way is as follows:

#1 coat the shaft with valve grinding compound.
#2 Install the wheel with out the key way.
#3 By hand spin the wheel over and over again unit the valve gringing compound dulls the shaft uniformly. This means that all of the shafting is touching the hub of the wheel.
#4 clean the shaft
#5 Put the wheel back on the shaft & tighten the nuts without the key way.
#6 Mark the shaft with a die marker on the forward end. This tells you where the wheel should be on the shaft with the key way.
#7 Fit the key way into the shaft. the key way should slide easily in both the wheel and shaft.
#8 Place the key way on the shaft as far back as possible.
#9 Slide the wheel on push the wheel up so it meets the die mark.
#10 with a drift pin push on the back of the key way to see if it moves as it should. If no the key way is to high so just file it down some. Also make sure that the key way is slightly rounded the edges that touch the shaft.
#11 Tighten up the wheel little nut 1st than the big nut 2nd. when tightening block the wheel as shown.
That will give you a perfect fit. Never block at the tip always at the hub.

zz.jpg
 
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OLD BAY

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Thanks Larry! We will see if the rework holds, but it was worthy the try. At least I have the wheel for the long WE!

I appreciate the tips on the install, I didn't know about the the making sure the key fits.
 

delucat2

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This is from a well respected custom builder / repower guy out here in California. People who make thier living with a boat trust this guy.

About the only thing he recommends that is not stated above is to use lube on the prop when final fitting on the shaft, and epoxying the nut on.

Propeller installation / Big Nut vs. Little Nut
 

Blitzen

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This is from a well respected custom builder / repower guy out here in California. People who make thier living with a boat trust this guy.

About the only thing he recommends that is not stated above is to use lube on the prop when final fitting on the shaft, and epoxying the nut on.

Propeller installation / Big Nut vs. Little Nut


If you did that on any of the new large high horsepower sport fishing boats it would most likely void any warranty that has anything to do with the running gear.
CaptainLarry stated the proper proceedure that most production builders adhere to when installing propellers.
 

lobstercatcher

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Thanks Larry! We will see if the rework holds, but it was worthy the try. At least I have the wheel for the long WE!

I appreciate the tips on the install, I didn't know about the the making sure the key fits.

Although larry reiterated what I said and in more detail. I'd have to disagree with larry on the key. I wouldn't use a key that goes on easy. I would make sure it was snug. A easy fit key or sloppy key in the keyway may give under load and allow the wheel to work back and forth and cause serious problems down the road..

I won't be using any paste either.

Putting a grinding paste on the shaft and wotking the wheel back and forth until the shaft is uniformly dull?????

First of all., that is what the machining is for. The other thing is... if you have dulled the shaft all around It would insinuate you are removing shaft material. If you are grinding away at a hardened shaft.. What are you removing from the hole in the hub? The wheel is pretty soft in comparison to the shaft. My eye and hand in no match to a machine shop.
 
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captainlarry84

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What ever it works for me. Lube on the final install? I like doing it dry. This way you get positive contact of shaft & wheel to make sure the bonding system can work. Machining is the key but a little compound works great so hand turning finishes the job.
 

OLD BAY

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I appreciate everyone's comments.

The valve compound rec is explained in #5 below.

old-bay-albums-wasque-32-picture651-image.jpg


He also recommends to dry mount it.
Any way I wind up mounting it, it's gonna go back on this WE and I'm interested to see if there is a difference is between she ran last week.
 
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Tuna Pursuit

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Although larry reiterated what I said and in more detail. I'd have to disagree with larry on the key. I wouldn't use a key that goes on easy. I would make sure it was snug. A easy fit key or sloppy key in the keyway may give under load and allow the wheel to work back and forth and cause serious problems down the road..

I won't be using any paste either.

Putting a grinding paste on the shaft and wotking the wheel back and forth until the shaft is uniformly dull?????

First of all., that is what the machining is for. The other thing is... if you have dulled the shaft all around It would insinuate you are removing shaft material. If you are grinding away at a hardened shaft.. What are you removing from the hole in the hub? The wheel is pretty soft in comparison to the shaft. My eye and hand in no match to a machine shop.

The compound is for lapping. The machining can only get a certain quality of finish. There are inperfections in the maching. The lapping compound just makes a finer finish & laps the two surfaces so they contact completely. I know your old school but this is the best way to make sure these surfaces contact completely. As far as the key goes it is the taper that holds the prop in place not the key. If it was the key it would be sheared off. The point of the key moving freely is so it does not interfere with the taper fit of the prop to the shaft. Lube or no lube is another whole discussion like small nut big nut
 

delucat2

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Lots to clear up for you all:

1 - the grinding paste procedure ensures that the taper on the shaft perfectly matches the taper in the prop. The grinding compound will attack the softer material faster, and perfectly (or nearly so) match the prop to the taper. If the taper on either is imperfect, you will be concentrating the stresses in localized spots which greatly increases the chance of a stress crack forming in any weak spot.

2 - lube the prop/taper. The lube fills any voids in the space between the taper and the prop - dramatically reducing the possibility of oxygen starvation corrosion. It also makes it easier to remove the prop later. If "dry fit" was the rule and the object, then SOP would be to heat the prop and shrink fit it to the shaft. As to lube "voiding" a running gear warranty..... how? Lots of things that get tightened are lubed - motor mount studs, propeller shaft couplings, pully nuts, head bolts - you really want to eliminate friction so that you apply the proper amount of pre-load to the threads so they can do their job. Otherwise we'd all be adding sand to the threads, or tack welding them in place.

As far as what production builders do and do not do.. they turn out some real crap, so I'd not use them as an example. MAN, MTU, Cummins.... they write specs and procedures that work... sometimes. Look a place where grease is needed, yet is never found. Even seen an intercooler assembled dry that has brass near aluminum? In short order they corrode and destroy themselves. A little grease would eliminate the problem, but after years of failures, do you see them changing their assembly practices? Nope.

If it is yours, do it right.
 
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lobstercatcher

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A reconditioned wheel will be better than a wheel that was way off. You should have a improvement reguardless as long as the wheel is installed correctly.

Its hard to see #5. but think about what they are asking you to do. It is one of those sounds like a good idea but it isn't. If you really want to fit the wheel to the shaft and improve what a machine shop did ,You would probably need some specialized machinery. You would need to remove the shaft from the boat and match the wheel to the shaft under controlled circumstances and I can't see anyone doing that. I would suspect the upper side of the shaft would wear prematurely due to the weight of the wheel and gravity. You are oblonging the shaft with a hand grinding compound fitting and actually doing damage. Since the process is not a controlled function as in a machine shop. The fit you are making is a nice snug bad fit. I don't know how much your wheel weighs but if it is only 35 lbs, Are you really thinking you can balance it perfectly on a shaft so there is equal grinding pressure on every bit of surface of every bit of 360 degrees by eyeing it .. You are somebody really special if you can. Again, it sounds like a good idea until you really think about it.

good luck this WE. Its the last unofficial WE of summer

Don't lube the wheel.
 
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captainlarry84

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The key should be snug but not tight. When I mount the wheel the key is all the way back on the face of the wheel. once the nuts are nice and tight I like to back them off and with some effort be able to move the key forward a little. This way I know the shaft is not running the key. Also marking the shaft with die is important to make sure you have a solid fit. By no means should have a lose fit.
 

delucat2

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Lapping the prop to the shaft removes material from the prop - not so much the shaft. This is just like hand lapping valves to valve seats, and despite the precision offered by CNC machines, still results in a perfect fit. Some things are better fit by hand.
 

Tuna Pursuit

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A reconditioned wheel will be better than a wheel that was way off. You should have a improvement reguardless as long as the wheel is installed correctly.

Its hard to see #5. but think about what they are asking you to do. It is one of those sounds like a good idea but it isn't. If you really want to fit the wheel to the shaft and improve what a machine shop did ,You would probably need some specialized machinery. You would need to remove the shaft from the boat and match the wheel to the shaft under controlled circumstances and I can't see anyone doing that. I would suspect the upper side of the shaft would wear prematurely due to the weight of the wheel and gravity. You are oblonging the shaft with a hand grinding compound fitting and actually doing damage. Since the process is not a controlled function as in a machine shop. The fit you are making is a nice snug bad fit. I don't know how much your wheel weighs but if it is only 35 lbs, Are you really thinking you can balance it perfectly on a shaft so there is equal grinding pressure on every bit of surface of every bit of 360 degrees by eyeing it .. You are somebody really special if you can. Again, it sounds like a good idea until you really think about it.

good luck this WE. Its the last unofficial WE of summer

Don't lube the wheel.

The specialized equipment is lapping compound and holding the prop on the shaft while the shaft turns slowly in the lathe. You know not of what you speak.
 

lobstercatcher

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Thanks for reiterating the wheel material is softer than the shafting material and will wear at a faster rate. As with the shaft, if equal grinding pressure isn't applied on all surfaces during seating as in grinding valves , you are doing damage and oblonging what was achieved by the machining. Do be done correctly by hand, the hub hole and shafting should be positioned vertically. I can't see anyone doing that and would only attempt the process horizontally which will do damage compared to a machine shops tooling results.
 

captainlarry84

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The valve grinding compound is only a mild lapping and is by no means a correction for proper machining. It is just a way of smoothing out any trapped debri or high spots. I also place one nut on hand tight during the process to keep the wheel on the die mark of the shaft.
 

OLD BAY

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#8 Place the key way on the shaft as far back as possible.

This may sound like a stupid question, but when you say "as far back as possible" you mean aft, correct? Not as far away from the threaded end as possible, right?
 

lobstercatcher

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The specialized equipment is lapping compound and holding the prop on the shaft while the shaft turns slowly in the lathe. You know not of what you speak.

Anyone can put grinding compound on and spin.
It doesn't mean you have improved anything. Many people wear parts prematurely. If a wheel from a shop turns out to be out, I'd return it and have them recheck it.
 

Tuna Pursuit

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Anyone can put grinding compound on and spin.
It doesn't mean you have improved anything. Many people wear parts prematurely. If a wheel from a shop turns out to be out, I'd return it and have them recheck it.

Next time you put a prop on put some pression blue on the shaft taper & put the prop on & spin it. That will show you if you have any high/low spots. Then you can clean it off & try lapping & check again and see if it improves.
 

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