How to set up a penn 114 for shark?

MAArcher

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The trouble with 400 lb mono is although you could tie a bimini or other knots just fine, it is really big and won't fit through anything other than the absolute largest guides if at all (ie maybe winthrops).. The same is basically true until you get down around 200 lb or smaller diameter lines.

Additionally, the crimps for 400 lb mono are still too big to wind onto most guides.

So the only real splice is a chinese finger of some sort to get onto the thick mono. You could chinese finger hollow core spectra, then tie a bimini or splice a loop in the spectra, bimini the mainline & loop to loop. Or you could use dacron for a chinese finger to the mono and splice a loop in the dacron, bimini the mainline and loop to loop... There are other options too, I do it with the dacron which is easier to chinese finger than spectra, but the spectra is real easy to tie a bimini in so doesn't need a spliced loop.

Oh and braid - it seems abrasion resistant right up until you pull it tight then nick it, then it falls on it's face. Berkley Big Game is where I go for a general use mono up until I'm in the 130 lb sizes.
When I fly fished I used to back feed the but end of a tapered leader through the core of the fly line and use Zap A Gap/ crazy glue to glue it in after roughing it up with fine sand paper. Of course that didn't receive the type of pressure we're talking about here, but it held up really well and I wore out the tapered leaders before the connection ever failed....... I just searched and it looks like some guys are "Chinese fingering" hollow core and using the Zap a Gap. Of course if I'm buying hollow core to chinese finger I might as well just spool it up.

Can you tell its the winter doldrums? Sitting here at my desk obsessing's about fishing line instead of working.
 

leaky

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When I fly fished I used to back feed the but end of a tapered leader through the core of the fly line and use Zap A Gap/ crazy glue to glue it in after roughing it up with fine sand paper. Of course that didn't receive the type of pressure we're talking about here, but it held up really well and I wore out the tapered leaders before the connection ever failed....... I just searched and it looks like some guys are "Chinese fingering" hollow core and using the Zap a Gap. Of course if I'm buying hollow core to chinese finger I might as well just spool it up.

Can you tell its the winter doldrums? Sitting here at my desk obsessing's about fishing line instead of working.

Any tackle shop that spools with hollow core, and probably on Ebay and stuff too, should be wiling to sell you a small amount, 50 or 100 feet, just to get you going. I'm pretty sure I have a short spool with 80# and 200# dacron hanging around as well.

Basic chinese finger is, no sanding, doesn't actually help, use a needle to push the mono up ~10 feet into the hollow core, perform a whipping, possibly super glue if you want (some feel it's good, some feel it's bad, I don't think it's needed with waxed rigging floss)..

The way I do it with the dacron - I take ~20 feet of dacron, make a dacron loop that is a foot or so long, and I pull the tag end the whole ~10 feet through so it comes out the end. So now you have a 1 foot loop, then one piece of dacron heading into the other and you can see two layers of dacron on the tag end. Then I run the needle up inside of both. Then I perform 2 whippings so that both of the tag ends, the inner and outer layer, are taken care of (which might be staggered a foot or two apart depending how the whole thing worked out).

There are a few ways, as well as tools, to perform that long dacron loop, simple no tools way is run a piece of mono up/through/out, then attach to the tag end, then use the mono to pull it back inside itself.
 

leaky

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Diagram of the above dacron loop to mono splice. This is stupid strong when you are up in the 8+ feet of finger splice ballpark, however like any Chinese finger splice you never pull on it by hand and is made only to wind on.

16137658424247310915642563841436.jpg
 

MAArcher

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Diagram of the above dacron loop to mono splice. This is stupid strong when you are up in the 8+ feet of finger splice ballpark, however like any Chinese finger splice you never pull on it by hand and is made only to wind on.

View attachment 102687
What do you use for knots for the "whip's"?

I've been playing with knots to see what I like. For a 100lb braid main line the FG knot to the 400lb mono leader works great. But if I go with 50lb mono main line, I still need to figure out a connection. There's too big a difference between the two lines to use the same hollow core to straight finger trap them together. So I can put a spliced loop finger trapped to the 400lb mono leader no problem. Now my question is, if I just tie a surgeons loop on the 50lb mono mainline, will I loose much strength there? Or do I need to get smaller hollow core and splice on a loop.

Have to say for simplicity and least complicated main line to leader connection, using the braid mainline FG knoted to the heavy leader seems like the way to go. For those who called the braid "dangerous", why is that?
 

leaky

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Whips use a crows foot to start, then a series of regular half hitches (reverse direction in the knots if you want the line of knots straight, or let them spiral around by tieing all the same way), then a sort of noose/uni to finish - probably easier to find a tutorial than for me to try to document it, although I just was looking around for a clear step by step whipping guide and I didn't find one easily. There are also a zillion ways to do splices (and some that are often touted honestly suck).. Might be easier if you want to swing by the tent some night I'm over there and I can show you, once you see it will be very obvious.

As far as the double surgeons, they work OK, although it looks like less a Perfection Loop I believe to be stronger, but a Bimini is the loop knot to learn, again, can show you, but Bimini's do take a little practice. Is a bit of a rite of passage IMO. Difference is a Bimini looses almost no strength. The others hold OK, just some significant strength is lost (same reason I don't choose Palomar over a crimp, or if I must tie a knot it's a Uni - the Palomar knot holds just it looses a lot of strength, there are better knots).
 

MAArcher

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I can't seem to tie a bimini with 50lb mono. I can't get it to wrap back on itself. What's the trick?

This guys got great technique, but I'd like to see him do it with heavy mono.
 

leaky

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I can't seem to tie a bimini with 50lb mono. I can't get it to wrap back on itself. What's the trick?

This guys got great technique, but I'd like to see him do it with heavy mono.

Trick is keep it taught and as you open up the loop it untwists and coils up the tag end. Do it over something smooth and sturdy like a door knob. Like I said might be easier if I showed you.

Same technique with 20 or 200 lb (and I can do it in either) but may be easier to learn on 20 lb then move up to 50 lb.
 

leaky

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Add: everything needs to be taught for it to work, one hand pulling the mainline, one hand feeding the tag end on there and opening the loop at the same time.

Sometimes I use my teeth to hold the tag end.
 

MAArcher

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Ok, for the record, I tied a double surgeons loop on one end of 8ft of 50lb mono and a bimini on the other end. The bimini was a little ugly but to test them I put the bimini loop around a door knob and the other end I had a piece of pipe through the surgeons loop and then I started pulling, neither knot broke, the line failed square in the middle. And I should mention, I should have had gloves on because the recoiling line smashed into my hand hard enough to leave a pretty ugly welt and hurt my feelings a bit. So I'm guessing that a surgeon's loop is fine to use in 50lb mono if you don't want to take the time for a pretty bimini.
 

leaky

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Ok, for the record, I tied a double surgeons loop on one end of 8ft of 50lb mono and a bimini on the other end. The bimini was a little ugly but to test them I put the bimini loop around a door knob and the other end I had a piece of pipe through the surgeons loop and then I started pulling, neither knot broke, the line failed square in the middle. And I should mention, I should have had gloves on because the recoiling line smashed into my hand hard enough to leave a pretty ugly welt and hurt my feelings a bit. So I'm guessing that a surgeon's loop is fine to use in 50lb mono if you don't want to take the time for a pretty bimini.

Its good to do those tests but a double surgeon is well known not to be great as far as maintaining line strength. It's a fine knot but no knot is stronger than the actual line and it does lose a lot more than a bimini, crimp, etc etc

Basically you gotta test it a bunch of times and keep in mind the way something breaks with a fresh knot yanked once to failure is not the same as 30 minutes of strain tightening down a knot slowly.

Those guys who use a bimini for marlin are not wasting their time tieing one in 300 lb leader when 2 overhand knots would do it as well.

Welding gloves, a heavy sweatshirt, hood, face shield, is a good way to go. Setup a hanging 5 gallon bucket and slowly add weight until it fails. Or when you just want to break the line to see how it fails a trailer hitch and tree is low stress :)
 

PatriciaLynn

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Bimini with a double line is the way to go for tying heavy mono. Crimps are easier, faster and likely just as effective for sharks. A double line helps absorb some of the wild shock from marlin shaking their heads boatside.

Blue sharks are not nearly as aggresive. Makos are probably worse, but you shouldn't have a green mako anywhere near your boat. Recipe for disaster.
 

MAArcher

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Trick is keep it taught and as you open up the loop it untwists and coils up the tag end. Do it over something smooth and sturdy like a door knob. Like I said might be easier if I showed you.

Same technique with 20 or 200 lb (and I can do it in either) but may be easier to learn on 20 lb then move up to 50 lb.
I may have to take you up on this. I have the rod set up good enough I think with 100lb braid FG Knoted to the 400lb leader. But I'd like to know how to tie a bimini in 50lb and I can't for the life of me do it. My bimini's look beautiful in braid, but the 50lb mono is a disaster. There isn't a single youtube video that I can find of someone tying a bimini in heavy mono.
 

leaky

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I may have to take you up on this. I have the rod set up good enough I think with 100lb braid FG Knoted to the 400lb leader. But I'd like to know how to tie a bimini in 50lb and I can't for the life of me do it. My bimini's look beautiful in braid, but the 50lb mono is a disaster. There isn't a single youtube video that I can find of someone tying a bimini in heavy mono.

50 lb mono is really light easy line to tie a Bimini in. Is more a matter of knowing how to wrangle the mono into the knot, tension and force in the right direction is needed and it's not obvious until you manage to get it right and see it. Am going to be over at the boat next couple nights, then gone for a week sat to sat, just drop me a line.

Spun this up in 150 just now for demonstration. Started with 22 turns.

20210331_005042.jpg
 

leaky

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Show off. Is that with a Rizzuto finish too?

I was trying to figure out what a Rizzuto is, still not 100% sure but might be similar to how a bimini is normally finished, similar to a uni, how a whipping also is finished. You tie one half hitch to lock the Bimini then that last knot to hold it all in place.
 
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