Looking for input on first commercial boat (30-38ft)

[landhauto]

I'm starting some research (and looking for some investors ) into buying my first commercial boat. Hopefully this stays on topic.

I will be using the boat out of southern RI and fishing exclusively tuna, primarily in the canyons (80-120nm one way). Obviously a downeast style boat seems a no brainer here. Any brands or models stand out in terms of durability and construction? Any designs to flat-out avoid?

For the Pro's out there, what would you change about your boat if building it from scratch? What quality is more important, ride or efficiency (subjective)? Any recommendations as far as liveability when working it everyday?

 

[petrel]

Gonna build your first commercial boat brand new?

 

[23beal]

how much time you plan on spending out there- gonna fish full time?

 

[WRHardie]

buy used, after this season all the wicked tuna wannabes will be selling their boats realizing it ain't a TV show out there.

 

[Blitzen]

Buy the biggest boat you can afford, 40+, comfort is priorty when spending extended periods time offshore. Reliability and comfort are the two biggest things on my list. Lets not forget hot food and a dry bunk. A generator is a must have.

 

[plowin]

I would consider boats in the 42' range. First, if your fishing commercially you have to go to work nearly every day within reason which means you better have a boat that can handle heavy weather. Second, I would NOT consider a boat that is "fast". Speed is generally a luxury when hook/trip fishing speed costs money and your doing this to consistently turn a profit.Third, spend the money that you would have spent going fast on things like comfort in the wheel house,green stick satellite weather, quality electronics an insulated fish hold, and top notch lights for night fishing.

Most importantly, hire the best crew that you can possibly find!! Without them you will likely starve, remember the saying- pay now or pay later. There are a lot of top notch guys that know exactly what they are doing out there and not nearly as many guys willing to go out and give it a try. So the odds of finding someone are in your favor you are just going to have to commit your effort to them. Most commercial guys have been beaten down by our own rulemakers , a travesty in my opinion. Not to derail the thread, but how a man or woman providing food can be villianized as badly as they have been is simply mind blowing.

 

[Badlatitude]

I agree with Plowin big time! Every penny you burn is one you aren't putting in your pocket!

If you are on facebook check out the Maine Commercial swap and sell. There is a really nice dark green 40 Bruno Stillman on there up in Canada as well as several other nice rides.

Also check the two classified sections here as members hunt down some great boats from all over the web! No much on craigslist and uncle henrys slips past this group.

ETA
This is most likely one of the best buys in the country right now IMHO http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/4227294783.html

 

[petrel]

Yeah, wouldn't take too much "investment" there. Some deck reels, a 40' stick mounted up high and you're canyon ready. Can of corn. One of our members reports that it is a well kept boat too (see thread in "found boats"). Or you could spend 100's of thousands more on a new Wesmac.

 

[landhauto]

That H+H is beeeeeeeeeeautiful, but a little north of my budget even though the guy is clearly taking a beating at 145k. But now I'm dreaming. Definitely not building new! Trying to get myself into something solid in the 60-70k range to leave room for rigging new electronics, green stick, etc. Overall target budget is 100kish. Hopefully I can scoop up a tuna.net leftover from a guy who saw his first 8 foot wave and hauled it for good.

That said, what I'm digging for is what everyone HATES or would change about what they run, and also what features they LOVE in their work boats.

It is much, much, much more important to me that the boat drifts flat than goes fast, but id still like to be able to cruise at ~20kts, for those times when you gotta bail ahead of some weather. Somebody argue with me that a 22-24kt 32-36 footer is better than a 16-18 kt 42? From my experience they should both burn about the same fuel, opinions?

 

[petrel]

Thing is there are going to be times you can't just "bail." It's going to be too far and you've got to keep fishing when it lays down a bit, and you'll be able to hang in a bigger boat. And if you want to make money fishing way to the east, get your head right about going 8 to 10 knots. Forget those other speeds. The guys who are making a living chasing those fish and going to Georges if they have to are not zipping around on top doing 18 knots. Their boats are in the water, plodding along and they still have to carry extra fuel on deck sometimes. Have you done much of this tuna fishing on a hardcore commercial boat? Not trying to bust your balls; I do wish you the best. I'm just curious about your experience as a commercial mate.

 

[landhauto]

I've been on the water one way or another since I was 15 (27 now), I've lobstered and I've been a stand-in mate on several commercial boats part time for 3 seasons in the Canyons and spent probably 50-60 nights a year 100+nm out. I have most (3/4) of that time on a 38 Calvin Beal.

That being said I know exactly enough to truly, truly know that I know nothing about captaining/owning a full time commercial boat. And thats what brings me here, and there and everywhere anyone with any experience will let me listen. Bottom line, youre not gonna hurt my feelings telling me I'm wrong, I want to make my mistakes on the interwebs before I end up with a real life headache.

Are guys really steaming 6-7kts 100+nm? Must siiiiiiiiiip fuel.

What else are considered must haves? Is a hoist/boom/winch setup necessary? Pros/cons on dry stacks? What surprised you when you found out you didnt like it working a boat all the time? Just trying to hit on things/tips/advice I wouldn't ordinarily consider that you can only learn when your shins are bruised because the gunwales are 3 inches too low.

 

[plowin]

No feelings being hurt here and yes I believe more guys than you would believe are making those trips at less than 10 knots.
As far as the boat goes I prefer a narrow gunnel and stern deck over the wide ones and a tuna door is a must if your fishing giants. Ginpoles get the fish swinging when loading and eventually you will smash the shit out of the fish or something else on the boat, especially when its shitty out. The narrow stern deck makes pulling the fish in very easy on the back as well. If the deck is high(a foot or so) off the water I would build a ramp and fit it with a wedge to make it flush. Seems that most winter commercial fisherman have dry stacks for obvious reasons. Additionaly they are a more simple and less risky system than wet exhaust. By having a dry stack you will also increase your below deck space for fish holds and ample fuel tankage. Last thing you want to be doing is transfering fuel from bladders if you can avoid it.
I dont think your going to have to worry about trying to go 20kts if your looking to spend under 100k for a 38-40 footer, these boats get wicked pricey when you start going 20+kts cruising.
What your looking to do is no doubt possible I would just focus on having a boat that you can fish 80-90% of the weather in. While your at it your going to have to accept fishing anywhere from downeast maine to montauk at any given point in the season or in the same week for that matter.
Fish smart and try to stay on high value high percentage fish. Even doing all that stuff and adding all your own secret tricks you have learned over the years and its still a very tough thing to be financially succesful at every year. Good luck!

 

[Badlatitude]

Talk to the guys you have run with. Get some info on costs for the trips you were on. At the end of a 7-10 day trip you will be amazed how much money you left at the dock before you even shoved off. And that's if you don't tear anything up, snap a rod or any other bullshit that seems to happen. Buying the damn boat is the cheap part.

 

[landhauto]

"Buying the damn boat is the cheap part."

"If you want to have a million fishing, start with two."

FWIW the Beal can do a 3 day Hudson trip, bait, ice, fuel, crew food = 1400. Avg cruise of 20.2kts there and back, genset on for 72 hours straight. And thats OBVIOUSLY not including 6 dollar hooks, 15 dollar leaders, crimps, swivels, etc. Let alone payments/insurance/slip.....

One of my main motivations is the owner of the Beal has offered me unlimited use of his rigs as he is more or less retiring, which means 10 130's and bent butts, and a drinkers dozen of 80wides so that alone saves me a 20 thousand dollar bill. Now if only he'd come off his greenstick and hydros!

 

[landhauto]

Would I be totally outgunned in a 31 BHM? Whats the cost/return on saving 40k on a smaller boat but sitting out more days? Theres a really nice example available local to me, 6bt cummins (2800 hrs) twin disc, trolling valve, dry stack, 2010 electronics (Autopilot!), tuna door....needs SOME work but hes asking 60k. Boat has been raising giants as long as ive known it.

 

[Badlatitude]

31 BHM is one of the best offshore boats ever made. I don't think you are going to find anything under 35 that even comes close. For the price vs performance

 

[Toolate]

You dont have to run 100 mi offshore to know that 7kts is slow as dirt. To me its almost dangerous really unless you are in a decent boat that can handle some serious snot because there are times when you have to get up and go and to me, 7 knots is so slow that the tide and current can make your trip into 2x as long as it might have otherwise been (a couple knot current is almost half your speed). I would consider 10 to be my minimum really. Take a 7kt boat through the race against the tide...

 

[petrel]

I don't think you get it, Late. We're talking backing off to 7 to 10 knots to save fuel on a long haul. Not necessarily a 10 knot regular cruise on the boat. Actually the 31 BHM does not do 10 knots much cheaper than it will do 12, but 7 or 8 is pretty cheap cruising on one. And if you are going 100 miles or more out, yes you'd better have something under you, and some reliable economical diesel power. And 31' BHM's are awesome boats, superior to some fairly common 35 footers.

 

[SameDirection38]

38 or bigger (for where you are going the 45 or 46) Young Brothers, FPT C13-825, DC generator. Depending on what you put into the boat plan on 300k to 500k. Young brothers boats have been on the water for a long time and Stuart Workman is doing a hell of a job with the Young Brothers, and Calvin Beal line. FPT has the best fuel consumption ratings in the industry, and the best customer service. The DC generator will take a awhile to explain. If the thread kicks of a bunch of questions I will go into it more. Oh yes, lithium ion batteries.
just my opinion.

 

[mudhake]

i have one that is loaded as a offshore self suffecnted tuna boat with a cummins diesel with only 1800hrs original hrs on it. call me 978-764-6566