lossing the log and giving the shaft a tube

samhop

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great forum, yes i searched and found some great info

been looking at replacing my wet log with a shaft tube for 3 reasons in order of importance

1 my hull came out of a 3 peace mold and the aft seem at the dead wood split from shoe to hull. i patched it up last year but it needs to be properly repaired.

2 i spun the bearing in my external bronze cutlass and the last time i changed it i bonded in the bearing with some hull and deck, it needs to be changed again which will require pulling the shaft and splitting the bearing to remove it.

3 increasing hull efficiency

my thinking might be FUBAR, but this is the plan; get a tube the same size as the hub in my bronze, milled internal aft to take cutlass and external forward for existing drip less . get a number from shaft center to shoe and hull at a fixed point. pull the 2" shaft grind/prep the front of existing log. on the dead wood im looking at cutting a slot but leaving a tab on the face of the deadwood to help maintain shaft alinement. grind out the old water feed holes and glass-er up.

do i need to pop the top on the log and glass inside to.
and do i leave the log as is or foam it.

my thinking is leave it and jest glass from the outside. our if i have open it make a water tight inspection hatch and not foam it.

OK so far?

what im trying to noodle out is reshaping the trailing edge if the dead wood. i assume it is better to keep the tapper fair and as far forward of the wheel as i can to increase water flow.

pics are all i have showing prop and external bearing any input would be helpful
thanks

HPIM1017small.JPG

HPIM1051small.jpg
 
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El Mar

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samhop

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yup seen it
thanks

Willis B but its not stock
 

traditions

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I did kind of the same thing last spring,same boat.I only put in a short tube to replace my outside box.I have some pictures somewhere.If you put in the whole tube,when you order it from Roses,you will need a cutlasss in both ends if you have a dripless.I did kind of what you said,and left a small tab on the bottom to hold up the tube.I cut off the whole squared of part that accepted the old outside box.Then I drilled and tapped a whole in each side of the tube,and used bolts to hold it in place when I glassed it in.When they built these boats,they held the shaft up to close to the hull.I was going to do what you are,but havent had the time.I know my inside box is pretty close to the gear,with only about 20'' of shaft exposed.I would glass both sides if it was me,but I know of ones that are just glassed on one side.PM me if you want.I see if I can find the pics.
 

CEShawn

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Sam, that is why I asked... Willis Beal, 35?

Ha! I just spotted the prop clean out too! I think...
 
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samhop

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I did kind of the same thing last spring,same boat.I only put in a short tube to replace my outside box.I have some pictures somewhere.If you put in the whole tube,when you order it from Roses,you will need a cutlasss in both ends if you have a dripless.I did kind of what you said,and left a small tab on the bottom to hold up the tube.I cut off the whole squared of part that accepted the old outside box.Then I drilled and tapped a whole in each side of the tube,and used bolts to hold it in place when I glassed it in.When they built these boats,they held the shaft up to close to the hull.I was going to do what you are,but havent had the time.I know my inside box is pretty close to the gear,with only about 20'' of shaft exposed.I would glass both sides if it was me,but I know of ones that are just glassed on one side.PM me if you want.I see if I can find the pics.

thanks for that.
yes definitely fix the tube in temporarily before glassing.

on the cutless why do i need one on the inside? it had a flax box inside i shed the packing - nut and put on a dripless. my thinking is the inside gutless makes a stress point on the shaft when the boat flexes. with jest the dripless over the inside of the tube the shaft can move inside the tube when the boat flexes. or am i missing somthing

thanks
 

samhop

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I have had some people pm me on this - for me PM is a pain in the ass - unless its info we dont wont in the public realm like tds for a hot set, or you girlfriends ph# lets keep it on the board, lift the knowledge base of the collective so to speak.

how custum is it - did thy make a 33.5

from what i know about lifting rails you couldn't fill a hummingbirds uknowwhat.
 

traditions

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If you have a dripless on a tube you will have no bearing to support the shaft.If you took the packing nut off and added a dripless you are using the old box as a bearing.Do you feed the dripless with water from the engine?
 

samhop

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If you have a dripless on a tube you will have no bearing to support the shaft.If you took the packing nut off and added a dripless you are using the old box as a bearing.Do you feed the dripless with water from the engine?

yes a dripless on whats left of my internal stuffing box set up the standard way with a 3/8 cooling water picked up of the heat exchanger, even though the log is wet and if i pull back the bellows i get flow running or not.

so maybe im confused or this is semantics but i wood not say im using the old box as a bearing as the shaft needs no support at that point and is not in contact with internal body of the box. in fact when i line up the eng. boat in water full fuel i shim the shaft in the center of the box than jack the eng around before bedding and bolting. did it once when new and again after i let the smoke out of her 3 years ago. im running 7 feet of 2inch ss shaft and its worked fine for about 10,000hr.

do you think i need an internal cutlass?
 

traditions

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Every one I have seen has a cutlass on both ends.If you buy it from Roses,ask Kenny what he thinks.Is this in a 31?The shaft seems too short for a 35,I think I have 10 feet 6''.Heres a picture of how much I cut out.I thought I had more.I used some layed up glass to fill in the hole,and shaped it in with a filler ( I use fillite,could use hull and deck) and laminated alot of mat and roven over the tube.

100_0988.jpg
 

samhop

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it was a 31 now its about 34'4" i was going for 35 but concerned that the transom might break the waterline. i added 90gal in 2 glass tanks under deck giving it 290g 270g usable thats 4 or 5 days fishing for me. 35 would have worked with the tanks dont know if transom would have stayed in the water without the tanks. back to tubes

yes the shaft is short enough to not need the extra bearing. i was 'thinking' you meant the internal bearing was needed in a tube installation, U know what thought did.

did you change the trailing edge of the dead wood. or did you glass and fair out the cut area to the end of the tube.

thanks
 

traditions

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I still think you need a bearing on the inside,you cant use the gear as a bearing,the shaft should stay in place without the gear hooked up.I cut some triangle pieces and glassed them to the sternpost and the exposed tube like gussets.
Your project sounds interesting.The 31 sails thru the water nice.Being narrower than the 35 she should go nice.I guess I see where you added,I thought you just fogged out the numbers.quite a few boats being stretched out,some work good and some not as well.I hope your is one of the well ones.Are you going to put a cover on that cutout?If you are I would make a plug that is attatched to the cover that plugs the hole above the wheel.I dont if it affects the wheel,but it doesnt seem right having a pocket above the prop.
 
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samhop

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I did stretch and clean out about 4 or 5 years ago. both are great flatter faster more deck space increased caring and fuel capacity. stick glassed to plug and lid is free the only gasket is 2 racor 900 lid gaskets over taper in plug the placement was good it pushes a little water witch what i wonted as apposed to sucking air

tube is a new project im noodling on the blow days. i need to fix the split dead wood and redo my cutlass thats bonded in, so it seems like a good time to do it.

thats why im trying to get info on shaping the trailing edge of the keel / dead wood
 

captainlarry84

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Correct on dripless stuffing boxes as they add zero support to the shaft. I have one on my JC, however the shaft is a 1.75 and only 92 long so there is no whipping. Conventional stuffing boxes are safer and they add support, so with a conventional stuffing box and a long shaft you could use only one cutlass bearing.
Conventional stuffing boxes are a pain & they do scare the shafts, but in some cases possibly yours they may be the better way to go.
How close is the end of the tube to your cuppler? If the distance is close the second cutlass bearing holds the shaft accountable for extremely close aliment. If the aliment is slightly out and you do not feel it, that is when trouble starts. The shaft starts to work at the cuppler, it is called kneeing the metal. Once the process advances the shaft will snap at the cuppler end. You need a pretty good distance from the bearing to the cuppler to be safe when using a second bearing and dripless. The conventional however is much more forgiving as it allows the shaft to move just a little which prevents the kneeing process.
If you go with a dipless & not second bearing you may pick up some whip, just a bad.
Looking at your project I would lean towards one bearing and a conventional stuffing box.
 

samhop

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thanks Larry

jest got a real # on the shaft im running a 2" ss shaft 107" long with 19" from the front of the log to the face of the bearing. the eng is hard mounted.

i haven't called Rosses to talk to Kenny yet, but my thinking was to jest have a bearing in the back of the tube and put the drip-less bellows over the front of the shaft tube.

do you have any insight into the shape of trailing edge of the keel?

i need to repair the dead wood "not sure that's the right term on a fg hull" but as i stated in my first post the back edge of the keel or dead wood split from shoe to hull. at first it looked like all 3 seams were opining up but after grinding it out i could see that the 2 foreword seams were jest superficial. the after seem was opined right up. i gave it a clean and fill than couple of layers of 1708 bi-axial and mat over the seams and called it good.

I have my stern bearing bolts welded to 2 drilled stainless flat bars top and bottom on the bearing so the glass behind the stern bearing would have to give way for the back of the keel to really let go. at any rate it needs to be addressed and a tube seemed like it made since as i would be channeling out the keel giving good bonding sirfice and axes for a repair/instillation.
 

captainlarry84

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Looking good

Ok2 shaft @ 107 you will be fine with a single rear bearing and a dripless up front. I assume that you are also turning a 2:0 gear so shaft speed will be slow.

Next I would push the shaft tube out as far as it can go to get better water to the keel. This may not be an option if you already have the 107 Shaft. An inch or two makes a big difference.

You should taper your keel like a soap box derby racer as Sharpe as possible so that when you glass you will see the curve of the wet tube.
The third picture shows the keel look you should be looking for.

Your dead wood needs to be beefed up as you have already cut the keel. The wet tube should be going thru about 2 of glass and that is a lot of lay up work. Shame you head & hat is exactly where we need to look. I would start by removing the tube. Next I would start laying glass right in the trailing ends of the keel top & bottom until you get 2 of solid glass. Getting in there will be no picnic. Once done I would come in with a quality hole saw the size of the wet tube.

Once done slide you tube up. You will have wiggle room. Get a good rough aliment by taping in some very thin shims. Once done glass it in place to hold youre work.

Next I would get some 1/8 plywood are make filler strips top and bottom from the upper and lower keel cut holes down to the wet tube. Just drive a few dry wall screws to hold the wood. You now have a surface that you can glass to. Step the glass back on the keel and start your lay up.

I see an inspection port on the hull that may also be a good spot to add a support to the wet tube.

I am not sure what you mean about the metal & bolts.

CCI12182009_00001.jpg

photo 1b.jpg

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