Marine interior woodwork question

LuSea

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my Nauset 35 will be finished on the interior similar to your second to last image. our boat was originally finished like your last image by Nauset. During the complete strip of our hull and cabin I found that the major cabin side points of fastening were actually screwed from the exterior , filled and gel coated ! I plan to epoxy my new interior skin attachment points to the interior walls and leave the screw thru method in the past.
 

05bill

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i have always wondered about that. can any one explain ,or show more in depth, i. e.how to attach a piece of wood to the interior of the hull without nails ,screws ?

thanks
 

Captrob

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i have always wondered about that. can any one explain ,or show more in depth, i. e.how to attach a piece of wood to the interior of the hull without nails ,screws ?

thanks
I use an epoxy method. Grind hull to roughen the area and use west system epoxy(comes in a caulk gun tube) and apply your piece of wood. Hot glue on either end will hang it in place til the epoxy cures. If light weight attachment of wood to this fasteneing piece, then that is all thats needed. You could then fiberglas this piece into place for more strength, subject to your needs.
 

05bill

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Thank you.
So if I have a board say 5 feet and I want to put that on hull, inside. I would put several smaller pieces of wood epoxied to hull ,glass in for added strength and than attach 5 ft board to the smaller glasses pieces of wood on hull by screws ?

Do I have that correct ?

Thank you

Bill
 

Jjammer

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Thank you.
So if I have a board say 5 feet and I want to put that on hull, inside. I would put several smaller pieces of wood epoxied to hull ,glass in for added strength and than attach 5 ft board to the smaller glasses pieces of wood on hull by screws ?

Do I have that correct ?

Thank you

Bill
Yes that works. 3/4” strips are plenty deep and watch ur screw depth of course when attaching the finish piece

Scroll down this Newman and Gray project thread and you will see an example up in the bow.

Jarvis Newman 36' — Newman & Gray Boatyard
 

LuSea

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Thank you.
So if I have a board say 5 feet and I want to put that on hull, inside. I would put several smaller pieces of wood epoxied to hull ,glass in for added strength and than attach 5 ft board to the smaller glasses pieces of wood on hull by screws ?

Do I have that correct ?

Thank you

Bill
Exactly!
 

CaptainHinckley

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Thank you for the clarification.
I had been thinking I would attach strips of fiberglass composite or teak to perimeter and flex points to bolt through or screw into similar to the way we attached our through hull backing. How do you attach thin sheet to surfaces around ports and windows? Adhesive carefully applied similar to flooring projects?
Is it customary to use okoume plywood or something else?
Thought crossed my mind to use composite panel and apply veneer, thoughts? Price for materials should be similar. Is half inch thick enough or should panels be thicker?
 

LuSea

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M
Thank you for the clarification.
I had been thinking I would attach strips of fiberglass composite or teak to perimeter and flex points to bolt through or screw into similar to the way we attached our through hull backing. How do you attach thin sheet to surfaces around ports and windows? Adhesive carefully applied similar to flooring projects?
Is it customary to use okoume plywood or something else?
Thought crossed my mind to use composite panel and apply veneer, thoughts? Price for materials should be similar. Is half inch thick enough or should panels be thicker?
Since we have a cabinet shop I plan to use 1/2” & 1/4” Sapelle veneer ply or Mahogany veneer, dye stain for uniform appearance and topcoat with spray applied conversion varnish. My choice of veneer may change if my wife insists on a teak and holly veneer cabin sole . Sealing the back of the panels for dimensional stability is all that is required. We are applying a 1.75” ring of Coosa around The internal face of the cabin at all window locations bonded to the laid up cabin sides with hull & deck as I need to achieve a 1-1/8” uniform wall thickness for our new windows. We will then build solid wood trim rings to cap as a finish.
 

Jjammer

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Thank you for the clarification.
I had been thinking I would attach strips of fiberglass composite or teak to perimeter and flex points to bolt through or screw into similar to the way we attached our through hull backing. How do you attach thin sheet to surfaces around ports and windows? Adhesive carefully applied similar to flooring projects?
Is it customary to use okoume plywood or something else?
Thought crossed my mind to use composite panel and apply veneer, thoughts? Price for materials should be similar. Is half inch thick enough or should panels be thicker?
Use a mahogany-type product for finish: kaya, sapele, etc:

BoulterPlywood.com....

If you want to darken the material and fill the grain a bit, interlux filler stain is an awesome product prior to varnish:

Jamestown Distributors

You can try adhesive to affix, but ideally IMO fasteners should be used too. You'd need to pull the window frames and set the finish behind the frames to make it look "right." Batten trim pieces can also be used to "picture frame" in the veneer and hold it down at the edges.
 

CaptainHinckley

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Thanks again guys for information and confidence boost.
Without debf’ s knowledge, camaraderie, our efforts would not be as fruitful.

Post pictures of finish work in progress if you have them.
 

chortle

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Thanks again guys for information and confidence boost.
Without debf’ s knowledge, camaraderie, our efforts would not be as fruitful.

Post pictures of finish work in progress if you have them.
So I would recommend a couple of details you can easily do to avoid what happened in the picture below. This is rot in a 48 year old marine ply cabin that was coated in a skin of fiberglass. If the edges of the plywood and the fastener holes had been sealed as described below it likely never would have happened.
1642191349093.png

Use cosa or a similar composite material to build a "picture frame" around your portlight. It is likely that your cabin sides are not perfectly flat, there usually is some curvature in at least one direction. Your cosa is going to be pretty flat so when you bond this picture frame to the cabin sides use a generous amount of filled epoxy to fill the difference between the flat and curved surfaces. Make your picture frame an 1-1/2" wide if you can. At least 1/2" thick, 3/4" is better. Don't clamp it too tightly or you will squeeze out too much epoxy and distort the cabin side creating a localized flat spot. The flat spot is good for sealing your portlight but you will notice the disturbance of the soft curve of the cabin side and it won't look good. When you attach the portlight it and the cabin side will flatten only a little bit, enough to make an effective caulk seal without distorting the frame of the portlight or the cabin side too much.

Below is what happens to unsealed plywood marine plywood over time. It took over 40 years for this to be a problem but it could have been avoided by two things. Really well soaked and filled edges with epoxy and fastening holes that were drilled oversize, filled with epoxy and then redrilled for the screw used to fasten the portlight. See sketch below.

1642192154354.png
Below is the correct way to pot a fastener hole into wood underneath a fiberglass skin, the oversized hole for the epoxy has a chamfer for better bonding to the fiberglass skin. The fastener hole that is filled with epoxy is also chamfered to make an "O" ring for the caulk used to bed the portlight and the fastener.

1642192238119.png

Here are an example of wood cleats, 3/4"x 1-1/4" bonded to the hull to provide a means to fasten the wood batten ceiling that I put in the vee berth. These are bonded to the hull with 5200.

1642192787461.png

finished mahogany battens installed, nearly completed.

1642192940556.png

Those ceiling battens do not take any real load so the cleats are only bonded to the hull. If you plan to attach cabinets or furniture to them then it is worth the extra effort to lay some glass over the wood cleats so that they will not pull away if highly loaded.

Hope that helps.
 

05bill

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Great information ,thank you.

Now how do you match gel coat color .

Great information on this forum !!
 

chortle

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Wood cleats ,what kind of wood ,pine ?
Old, Southern Yellow PIne from an old building or an old wooden boat would work but in general get the most durable hardwood you can find or afford, do it once and done. Teak, Ipe and Mahogany, are top notch, if you can get it, with true Mahogany being the least expensive, easiest to work, bonds well and takes screws well. White Oak is good and not too expensive, by all means avoid Red Oak. In general, a good Mahogany is the easiest to work with and sufficiently durable. Douglas Fir would also be a reasonable choice for durability but it is a bit softer for taking screws, not bad but not as good as Mahogany or Teak. Ipe is really hard, will burn up drill bits, you have to drill larger than normal pilot holes to keep the screws from overheating and snapping.

If that kind of lumber is hard to get you could use closed cell foam strips, bonded to the hull and glassed over with an extra couple of layers of glass on the top surface to take the screws but its a lot of work to do many of them in a repeatable dimension.

I dropped a dime on the battens, they are true Cuban Mahogany, the local exotic lumber guy in town just happened to have some big pieces he got for a local cabinet maker wanting to do a bar top. The piece he got had too many flaws for his bar top so the cabinet maker refused it but I could mill it into strips and avoid those imperfections so I got it for a reduced cost.
 

Doug H

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Old, Southern Yellow PIne from an old building or an old wooden boat would work but in general get the most durable hardwood you can find or afford, do it once and done. Teak, Ipe and Mahogany, are top notch, if you can get it, with true Mahogany being the least expensive, easiest to work, bonds well and takes screws well. White Oak is good and not too expensive, by all means avoid Red Oak. In general, a good Mahogany is the easiest to work with and sufficiently durable. Douglas Fir would also be a reasonable choice for durability but it is a bit softer for taking screws, not bad but not as good as Mahogany or Teak. Ipe is really hard, will burn up drill bits, you have to drill larger than normal pilot holes to keep the screws from overheating and snapping.

If that kind of lumber is hard to get you could use closed cell foam strips, bonded to the hull and glassed over with an extra couple of layers of glass on the top surface to take the screws but its a lot of work to do many of them in a repeatable dimension.

I dropped a dime on the battens, they are true Cuban Mahogany, the local exotic lumber guy in town just happened to have some big pieces he got for a local cabinet maker wanting to do a bar top. The piece he got had too many flaws for his bar top so the cabinet maker refused it but I could mill it into strips and avoid those imperfections so I got it for a reduced cost.
Curious, why would you avoid red oak?
 

05bill

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Thank you again for the detailed explanation.

I would think garapa would work as well ?

Also the camber of the hull is concave ,how do you measure the battens to fit snuggly to the hull in order to 5200 ? Do they have to be milled individually ?

Sorry for all the questions .

Regards,

Bill
Old, Southern Yellow PIne from an old building or an old wooden boat would work but in general get the most durable hardwood you can find or afford, do it once and done. Teak, Ipe and Mahogany, are top notch, if you can get it, with true Mahogany being the least expensive, easiest to work, bonds well and takes screws well. White Oak is good and not too expensive, by all means avoid Red Oak. In general, a good Mahogany is the easiest to work with and sufficiently durable. Douglas Fir would also be a reasonable choice for durability but it is a bit softer for taking screws, not bad but not as good as Mahogany or Teak. Ipe is really hard, will burn up drill bits, you have to drill larger than normal pilot holes to keep the screws from overheating and snapping.

If that kind of lumber is hard to get you could use closed cell foam strips, bonded to the hull and glassed over with an extra couple of layers of glass on the top surface to take the screws but its a lot of work to do many of them in a repeatable dimension.

I dropped a dime on the battens, they are true Cuban Mahogany, the local exotic lumber guy in town just happened to have some big pieces he got for a local cabinet maker wanting to do a bar top. The piece he got had too many flaws for his bar top so the cabinet maker refused it but I could mill it into strips and avoid those imperfections so I got it for a reduced cost.
 

LuSea

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Thank you again for the detailed explanation.

I would think garapa would work as well ?

Also the camber of the hull is concave ,how do you measure the battens to fit snuggly to the hull in order to 5200 ? Do they have to be milled individually ?

Sorry for all the questions .

Regards,

Bill
Template and bandsaw the profile. never attempt to apply weight to make the bond. Personally I use thickened epoxy resin as the adhesive. It bonds to most every soft and hard wood species with the exception of Ipe’
 
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