Nida-Core Honeycomb

[DM_PNW]

Apparently this product is no longer produced, figured I just post it in case anyone (other than me) was thinking of using it as a core material. I was going to use it to replace my deck, looked like a great alternative to foam or balsa. Bummer.

 

[Powderpro]

In my opinion, a better alternative to NidaCore is a product called Canacore. You can purchased Canacore from Fiberlay . I've used both products, they look, feel, cut, etc exactly the same, however the Canacore is much stiffer in the raw form which makes it easier to use. You can get Canacore in 4x8 sheets in thickness from 1/2" - 1 1/2". I also read online, that the rumor is that Nidacore will continue to be produced by a different owner- I have no way of verifying that, just read it online.

 

[Bill]

Apparently this product is no longer produced, figured I just post it in case anyone (other than me) was thinking of using it as a core material. I was going to use it to replace my deck, looked like a great alternative to foam or balsa. Bummer.

Where did you get that info?

 

[Blitzen]

I believe that 3M purchased the company and the product is available. Not that I have bought any recently but do know people are still getting it.

 

[Bill]

Ya I saw a nida deck that was laid up last week.. Think it's composites one stuff.

 

[DM_PNW]

Contacted a dealer (www.apdmro.com) that does all things 3M and their responses were:

a)"3M decided to discontinue the entire line of composites except for a couple compounds. The sheets are no longer available, and therefore not on our site any longer."

and

b) "3M actually discontinued their Nida-Core line, the entire plant that manufactured them in Port St. Lucie, Florida has been closed down".

I guess another example of a corporate acquisition that did not work out. Looked like a decent product, and at a price point much more attractive than Nomex et al. Will need to investigate the Canacore option and see if they have a distribution channel here out west.

Dave

 

[Islandlure]

Contacted a dealer (www.apdmro.com) that does all things 3M and their responses were:

a)"3M decided to discontinue the entire line of composites except for a couple compounds. The sheets are no longer available, and therefore not on our site any longer."

and

b) "3M actually discontinued their Nida-Core line, the entire plant that manufactured them in Port St. Lucie, Florida has been closed down".

I guess another example of a corporate acquisition that did not work out. Looked like a decent product, and at a price point much more attractive than Nomex et al. Will need to investigate the Canacore option and see if they have a distribution channel here out west.

Dave

I just took delivery on 12 sheets of 1 inch for 50% off cost from a local dealer because it is being discontinued. The rep told me that I would be able to find comparable material from composite one.

 

[Keelboater]

Why does it seem like every time I show interest in using a product, it turns out that it's being discontinued? Can't tell you how many times this has happened to me! I will investigate the similar options. Thanks.

 

[Powderpro]

Dave in the Pacific NW- Fiberlay right in Seattle sells Canacore sheets. Their website is Fiberlay . I've always had good luck dealing with Fiberlay.

 

[DM_PNW]

Thanks PowderPro. Found them, and see that they also have a store in Surrey... That way I don't need to deal with the boarder (i'm in Victoria). Prices look decent too.

 

[lobster12]

In my opinion, a better alternative to NidaCore is a product called Canacore. You can purchased Canacore from Fiberlay . I've used both products, they look, feel, cut, etc exactly the same, however the Canacore is much stiffer in the raw form which makes it easier to use. You can get Canacore in 4x8 sheets in thickness from 1/2" - 1 1/2". I also read online, that the rumor is that Nidacore will continue to be produced by a different owner- I have no way of verifying that, just read it online.

I am getting a little confused here. We have NidaCore, Canacore, Coosa board 20, Coosa board 26 and of course plywood as potential deck material Correct?

Which would you suggest for a lobster boat that will never go shrimping or scalloping? Strength is important but we don't need a battleship either. Hoping to keep as light as possible for speed and fuel savings while still having some basic creature comforts inside the wheelhouse and down below.

 

[F/V First Team]

Balsa core

 

[DM_PNW]

Reccomendations for thickness and layup? I was thinking about 3/4" core with 1 layer of 18oz roving and 1 layer of mat on each side. I know that some of the sailboats (27-30 foot) around here use this for their hulls.

 

[oldshell55]

balsa core

Balsa core

are you suggesting to use balsa on the deck?, seems like that's looking for trouble, any intrusion, which is inevitable, I've seen the end result, not pretty.don't you think coosa would be better

 

[Powderpro]

Reccomendations for thickness and layup? I was thinking about 3/4" core with 1 layer of 18oz roving and 1 layer of mat on each side. I know that some of the sailboats (27-30 foot) around here use this for their hulls.

I don't know what size your deck is, but I go with 1" Canacore for my decks, and I use 2 layers of 1708 with a layer of mat on the top side and 1 layer of 1708 and a layer of mat for the bottom side. I go with 2 layers on the top side for more strength and more puncture resistance. A 1" 4x8 sheet of Canacore is only 2-3 pounds more per sheet than the 3/4".

 

[lobster12]

I don't know what size your deck is, but I go with 1" Canacore for my decks, and I use 2 layers of 1708 with a layer of mat on the top side and 1 layer of 1708 and a layer of mat for the bottom side. I go with 2 layers on the top side for more strength and more puncture resistance. A 1" 4x8 sheet of Canacore is only 2-3 pounds more per sheet than the 3/4".

As I have stated we do not plan on dragging for scallops or shrimp so the real heavy gear will not be bouncing on the deck. Will the Canacore handle the occaisional dropped 100 pound lobster trap or box of bait?

Just curious do why do you glass the underside of the Canacore?

 

[DM_PNW]

From my undestanding its to create a I-Beam of sorts with the core acting like the web of the beam and the skins being flange like to spread the load, and that some strength comes from the space between the two flange faces. My understanding, but I'm an Electrician.... I'll leave it at that.

 

[Keelboater]

From my undestanding its to create a I-Beam of sorts with the core acting like the web of the beam and the skins being flange like to spread the load, and that some strength comes from the space between the two flange faces. My understanding, but I'm and Electrician.... I'll leave it at that.

That's right. The "strength from the space between the two flange faces" is a result of increasing the moment of inertia of the composite. The further the two "flanges" are spaced apart, the stiffer the finished "I Beam" becomes. So for future reference, if you are looking at materials that have the moment of inertia specified, it relates to the stiffness of the panel. The higher the "I value", the stiffer the panel will be.

 

[DM_PNW]

Thanks Keelboater, nice to know my thinking is not out to lunch or out of line. Next question, what would be the support requirements for the layup as suggested by powderpro? Currenly a ply deck with teak on top, she's a cruising boat. About 10 feet by 12 feet and stringers 1 foot either side on the centerline.

 

[Keelboater]

You will need to determine the "I value" of your composite in order to work with any calculations. I am not familiar with Canacore at this point, but if you use the published value for the moment of inertia (I value) for the panel thickness you want to use, that would be a good basic starting point. If you go with a symmetrical layup that is the same on either side of the panel, it will simplify the calculations for the I value of the finished composite. That being said, you also need the modulus of elasticity of each material. The modulus for Canacore is most likely different than that for the glass layups. You also need the load per square foot that you wish to design for. When analyzing the finished composite, it is treated as a beam that is fixed on all sides, rather than the more basic method of simply supported at each end. Advice from a builder or someone who has sussessfully done this before can go a very long way and save you the calculation headaches. Likewise, any special design software would make life easy as well for calculating the deck deflection. Powderpro has done this deck construction method before, so I would consult with him about it in more detail. You can't argue with success, no matter how he arrived at the solution. I would also talk to First Team to pick his brain on the balsa core idea. People shy away from it due to all of the horror stories, but it really does provide very good stiffness as well, and if done correctly with vinylester, it shouild be fine unless Drill Happy Harry shows up at one of your cocktail parties. The deck in my boat is balsa core and it is 33 years old. Good luck.