One Calvin Beal vs. Another???

Cichlidgeek

Lieutenant
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
Posts
36
Likes
0
Age
44
Location
New Jersey
I came oh so close to pulling the trigger on a well-used 32-foot Mitchell Cove last year, but it needed too much work for me to handle. Anyway, while doing research I learned that Calvin Beal designed the Mitchell Cove hulls (32, 35, and 37). However, I see that he has other hulls that are his design and marketed under his name. What is the difference between the 'older' Mitchell Cove hull designs compared to the 'newer' Calvin Beal hull designs? Is one "better" than the other??

Thanks!!
 

Downeaster

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Posts
229
Likes
14
Location
Jonesport USA
As I recall, there were three Mitchell Coves designed as a consignment for Bass Harbor builder David Schlaefer by Calvin Beal Jr. These designs go back to the mid-80s and were comprised of a 35', a 32' and a 28' (anything larger than the 35' was a subsequent "stretch job"). Schlaefer wanted a few characteristics that Beal wouldn't normally have designed in - one of these was more upward sweep to the sheer line forward. As is typical of a Calvin Beal Jr. design, these are all very efficient hulls and ten years ago one of the terrors tearing up the racing series was a 35' MC called Instigator. It had a nearly 600 hp Isotta Fraschini diesel in her and she was a rocket (no cage). Brian Fraser of Stockton Springs built and raced her and he went on to form the short-lived Performance Marine.

It is my opinion that no one designs a faster hull than those coming out of Calvin's shop in Barney's Cove.
 

Downeaster

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Posts
229
Likes
14
Location
Jonesport USA
Cichlidgeek said:
I. What is the difference between the 'older' Mitchell Cove hull designs compared to the 'newer' Calvin Beal hull designs? Is one "better" than the other??

Not sure that I answered the second part of your question so here goes. The Mitchell Coves are a "modern" downeaster due to their wide beam. Characteristic of older downeast designs are narrower beams that approach an even 3:1 (length overall:beam). It is my strong opinion that as fuel prices soar these older designs will become very popular again because (due to their relatively modest beam) they are more easily driven, with less horsepower, than their wider (modern) siblings.
 

Cichlidgeek

Lieutenant
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
Posts
36
Likes
0
Age
44
Location
New Jersey
Downeaster said:
As I recall, there were three Mitchell Coves designed as a consignment for Bass Harbor builder David Schlaefer by Calvin Beal Jr. These designs go back to the mid-80s and were comprised of a 35', a 32' and a 28' (anything larger than the 35' was a subsequent "stretch job"). Schlaefer wanted a few characteristics that Beal wouldn't normally have designed in - one of these was more upward sweep to the sheer line forward. As is typical of a Calvin Beal Jr. design, these are all very efficient hulls and ten years ago one of the terrors tearing up the racing series was a 35' MC called Instigator. It had a nearly 600 hp Isotta Fraschini diesel in her and she was a rocket (no cage). Brian Fraser of Stockton Springs built and raced her and he went on to form the short-lived Performance Marine.

It is my opinion that no one designs a faster hull than those coming out of Calvin's shop in Barney's Cove.


Downeaster said:
Not sure that I answered the second part of your question so here goes. The Mitchell Coves are a "modern" downeaster due to their wide beam. Characteristic of older downeast designs are narrower beams that approach an even 3:1 (length overall:beam). It is my strong opinion that as fuel prices soar these older designs will become very popular again because (due to their relatively modest beam) they are more easily driven, with less horsepower, than their wider (modern) siblings.

Thank you very much for your replies.....loaded with great info!!
I like the beamy hulls of today's modern downeasters. That said, the 32x12 dimensions of the 32 MC is basically perfect for what I would like to do. I also like the fact that the 32 MC keeps that 12-foot beam, or most of it, down to the stern. I don't particularly like the 'bulge' that some models show in the middle. Anyway, I would definitely agree with you 100% that based on fuel prices we will see a movement toward fuel efficiency over ability to carry huge loads of weight.
As for the enhanced upward sweep to the sheer line, would you agree that Osmond's H&H molds show that as well????
Thanks again!!
 

Tumblehome

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Posts
214
Likes
93
Location
Sheepscot Valley, Maine
Downeaster said:
As I recall, there were three Mitchell Coves designed as a consignment for Bass Harbor builder David Schlaefer by Calvin Beal Jr. These designs go back to the mid-80s and were comprised of a 35', a 32' and a 28' (anything larger than the 35' was a subsequent "stretch job"). Schlaefer wanted a few characteristics that Beal wouldn't normally have designed in - one of these was more upward sweep to the sheer line forward. As is typical of a Calvin Beal Jr. design, these are all very efficient hulls and ten years ago one of the terrors tearing up the racing series was a 35' MC called Instigator. It had a nearly 600 hp Isotta Fraschini diesel in her and she was a rocket (no cage). Brian Fraser of Stockton Springs built and raced her and he went on to form the short-lived Performance Marine.
It is my opinion that no one designs a faster hull than those coming out of Calvin's shop in Barney's Cove.

You have a great memory DE'r. I remember Brian's boat back in the day. The boys who refused to get the powerplant pronunciation right referred to it as the "Icewatah Fettucini". There was another MC 35 that ran a few years back, and ran well, the Duncan & Blake, I believe she had a 600 hp MAN. They are great looking, and great performing boats. One of my good buds has fished the 35 for years. I have been out on her in some real snotty weather, and she handles her business. He just re-powered from a 74 series Volvo to a 375 Deere. 17 knot cruise with a cage on. :cool:
 

Downeaster

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Posts
229
Likes
14
Location
Jonesport USA
BillD said:
So that must mean that a 33 Young Brothers @ 33X11,,,an exact 3:1 ratio must go like a rocket ship with appropriate power ?? LOL

One of my favorite designs but a 3:1 ratio doesn't necessarily mean that it'll fly; it means that with (say) 350 hp it could be just as fast (and use less fuel in the process) than an otherwise equivalent 33 footer with a 13' beam and 500 hp. There really are no free rides and I guess that a pretty good example of this phenomena is an offshore powerboat racer. A deep V hull is actually "in" the water (unlike a hydroplane which just glances off the surface occasionally). Did you even see one of these offshore designs with a significant beam to it? Neither have I.
 

Downeaster

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Posts
229
Likes
14
Location
Jonesport USA
[/quote]As for the enhanced upward sweep to the sheer line, would you agree that Osmond's H&H molds show that as well????
Thanks again!![/quote]

Again, no easy answers. I think that the sheer is the single most important line of any boat in the water. On some of the nailed-plank Novi designs built before 1980, you nearly needed climbing equipment to make your way to the (plumb) stem but weren't they things of beauty though? Calvin Beal has been flattening the forward sheer on his more recent designs and in doing so hasn't (IMO) added anything to the looks of those hulls. But, he did this for a very valid reason as anyone who has lobstered out of a downeaster can tell you. Any guesses?
 

Downeaster

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Posts
229
Likes
14
Location
Jonesport USA
[/quote]I remember Brian's boat back in the day. The boys who refused to get the powerplant pronunciation right referred to it as the "Icewatah Fettucini". There was another MC 35 that ran a few years back, and ran well, the Duncan & Blake, I believe she had a 600 hp MAN. They are great looking, and great performing boats. One of my good buds has fished the 35 for years. I have been out on her in some real snotty weather, and she handles her business. He just re-powered from a 74 series Volvo to a 375 Deere. 17 knot cruise with a cage on. :cool:[/quote]

Hadn't heard that name and I'm still chuckling over it!

I do recall Duncan & Blake and Gary Genthner (Libby 34) duking it out in their class though - close, exciting racing. I recall Gary as hailing from Medomak and wonder if my recall serves me in thinking that Duncan & Blake was from mid-coast too? Didn't Duncan & Blake sport those tall side windows that reached down to the washrail? I recall MAN going through some bad pistons at about the time Duncan & Blake started racing - did your friend ever crack a piston while he had the MAN?
 

Tumblehome

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Posts
214
Likes
93
Location
Sheepscot Valley, Maine
Gary fishes out of Round Pond. He has been racing that Libby for years (as you know). Iveco power now. I enjoyed beverages with Gary over the 4th up your way. I remember the Duncan & Blake hailing from Bass Harbor and I think she had traditional windows on the port side.
My bud's boat ran a volvo for 16,000 hours and switched to a Deere this year.
I had not heard of MAN's piston issues up this way. That's not to say they didn't bother down south where they are popular with the big twin engine sportfish boats. I attended a MAN service course in Pompano Beach back in my wrench turning days, and am familiar with their powerplants. They never took off up here (lack of support and marketing), but the engines I am aware of that are fishing here have held up well.
You must remember the Captain Jack, the 28 Mitchell Cove that David raced? She was quick.
 

Downeaster

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Posts
229
Likes
14
Location
Jonesport USA
Tumblehome said:
Gary fishes out of Round Pond. He has been racing that Libby for years (as you know). Iveco power now. I enjoyed beverages with Gary over the 4th up your way. I remember the Duncan & Blake hailing from Bass Harbor and I think she had traditional windows on the port side.

I believe that Gary's first engine was a Mitsubishi. I seem to remember that it was a very heavy engine in comparison to other engines in its class. The story that I got was that Gary went with the Mitsubishi after someone in that organization said that they'd provide support and help him turn up the engine. What I heard was that after Gary bought the engine, whoever told him that they'd turn up the output changed their mind and Gary was left twisting in the wind. Any truth to that?

Nernie's 34s always seemed more sensitive than most to extra weight - you remember the first 34? It was an odd light blue or light green hull that Ernest was to race himself and he called it the 'Uncle Shieb' (sp). It went in late and was to debut at the Reach the next day on the 4th. It had some engine with crazy horsepower and Ernest's boys were trying to sort it out while keeping it out of the public eye but they never managed to sort her out and she didn't race the next day. In fact, she just up and disappeared and the thinking was that she just never came close to the speeds needed. Never heard another word about her and I have no idea where she went.
 

BillD

Admiral
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Posts
6,835
Likes
2,367
Location
Portsmouth NH, boating out of the mighty Merrimack
Boat Make
25 Terry Jason with Cummins 370 power
As for the enhanced upward sweep to the sheer line, would you agree that Osmond's H&H molds show that as well????
Thanks again!![/quote]

Again, no easy answers. I think that the sheer is the single most important line of any boat in the water. On some of the nailed-plank Novi designs built before 1980, you nearly needed climbing equipment to make your way to the (plumb) stem but weren't they things of beauty though? Calvin Beal has been flattening the forward sheer on his more recent designs and in doing so hasn't (IMO) added anything to the looks of those hulls. But, he did this for a very valid reason as anyone who has lobstered out of a downeaster can tell you. Any guesses?[/quote]


My guess is that flattening the shear increases visibility. Let me ask you this.
Two Calvin designs, his 34 and the Mitchell Cove 32.....which one has the better "visibility looking forward" @ cruising speeds from the helm wheel?
 

Cichlidgeek

Lieutenant
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
Posts
36
Likes
0
Age
44
Location
New Jersey
This was one of the MC 32s that made me really want to get one in the first place. Anyone know this MC 32??

venturer.jpg
 

oldsalt

Lieutenant
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Posts
16
Likes
0
Tumblehome said:
Gary fishes out of Round Pond. He has been racing that Libby for years (as you know). Iveco power now. I enjoyed beverages with Gary over the 4th up your way. I remember the Duncan & Blake hailing from Bass Harbor and I think she had traditional windows on the port side.
My bud's boat ran a volvo for 16,000 hours and switched to a Deere this year.
I had not heard of MAN's piston issues up this way. That's not to say they didn't bother down south where they are popular with the big twin engine sportfish boats. I attended a MAN service course in Pompano Beach back in my wrench turning days, and am familiar with their powerplants. They never took off up here (lack of support and marketing), but the engines I am aware of that are fishing here have held up well.
You must remember the Captain Jack, the 28 Mitchell Cove that David raced? She was quick.


Its good to see some good ole boys from where downeasters are built.. To clear up on some confusion I have, where does downeast start and end? Is there a Mid coast ? What is below mid coast? And one more.. What makes a down east a down east? Can I down in Florida come up with a Down East design on my own and build it and call it a down east?
 

JasonD

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Posts
194
Likes
151
Location
Midcoast Maine
From the east side of Pen Bay to the canadian border is downeast, there is a midcoast thne below that is Southern Maine
 

Tumblehome

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Posts
214
Likes
93
Location
Sheepscot Valley, Maine
Downeaster: I can't remember what was the story behind the Mitsi power plant, but I think you have it right. I'll have to pass that story of Ernie's first 34 on to my father, he may or may not be able to add to the story.

I have to agree with Jason on the Downeast boundries, although I may push the line even further East, to say Schoodic Point and Winter Harbor. :)

Old Salt: A downeast to me is a round bilge, full keel, single engine vessal with the curves in all the right places. I could/should be more clever with this description, but that will have to wait until happy hour. ;)
 

Downeaster

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Posts
229
Likes
14
Location
Jonesport USA
Cichlidgeek said:
Nobody here knows anything about the MC 32 Venturer?

If the hailing port is accurate, the Venturer is probably kept in the Royal River in Yarmouth (just south of LL Bean's headquarters). Beyond that, here's what you could've come up with a little digging:

Coast Guard Vessel Documentation
Data found in current database. Vessel Name: VENTURER USCG Doc. No.: 994532
Vessel Service: COMMERCIAL FISHING VESSEL IMO Number: *
Trade Indicator: Fishery Call Sign: *
Hull Material: FRP (FIBERGLASS) Hull Number: MDS32003A292
Ship Builder: MITCHELL COVE BOAT Year Built: 1992

Length (ft.): 32
Hailing Port: YARMOUTH ME Hull Depth (ft.): 6.5
Owner: WILLIS M SPEAR III
1638 FOREST AVENUE
PORTLAND, ME 04103 Hull Breadth (ft.): 12.2
Gross Tonnage: 17
Net Tonnage: 13
Documentation Issuance Date: June 30, 2011 Documentation Expiration Date: June 30, 2012
Previous Vessel Names: No Vessel Name Changes Previous Vessel Owners: WILLIS M SPEAR III
 

Downeaster

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Posts
229
Likes
14
Location
Jonesport USA
Cichlidgeek said:
Very cool, thanks Downeaster!

You're quite welcome. I think that a word about used workboats might be in order. A used boat may seem turn key but that's probably only reliably so with a boat that has a few hundred hours on her (those few hours may also cause a problem all their own though). The typical bay (inshore) lobsterboat has a "ton" of hours on it and often they are being offered for sale just to avoid a re-power job. Relatively speaking, these are light duty engine hours but the life of a diesel is determined by the amount of fuel that goes through it and these boats are mostly used up. Electronics probably went on the boat with it's commissioning. Another area that gets to being pretty shabby is the electrical system and I often think that it is a wiser course just to pull everything and replace it. Aluminum tanks (if so equipped) can be a ticking clock and very few of them can be replaced without having to saw through the desk. What I'm saying is, spend a little time finding a highly regarded marine surveyor who is well experienced with commercial workboats and pay him whatever he asks as it will be some of the wisest (boat) monies you've ever spent. For what it's worth, one of the guys behind the counter in Hamilton Marine's Searsport store is one of the best. BTW, no sexism here as I've never even heard of a female surveyor.
 
Top Bottom