Have to replace my working deck that rotted out (plywood) looking to us a composit product instead of plywood. Have sample of "COOSA" which looks very nice. anyone here have experience using this or any other composit on boat, using like plywood, please jump in. thanks. Tommy :?:
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Replace DE deck with composits
- Thread starter tomy
- Start date
jawz
1st Mate
composites are great,i like "penske board",great product.only problem with composites,is the fact they will not hold a fastener - if you're gonna need to fasten anything to the deck,you're gonna need to thru bolt,and "sleevei"t.if that's not an option,you have a few ways to go:
first-remove the coring in the area where the fasteners are gonna go - fill that area with epoxy - mixed with adhesive fibers - i use and prefer west system epoxy-mixed with 403 adhesive fiber - after this is kicked,drill it and install your fasteners.
next option is to laminate a "block" of plywood,encapsulated in epoxy,mount the product to the block as needed.
composites are polyester based - meaning,they're brittle - the vibration,will cause the fibers to break,causing a loose fastener - 3m5200,or other products will not cure this problem...
big fan of composites !
first-remove the coring in the area where the fasteners are gonna go - fill that area with epoxy - mixed with adhesive fibers - i use and prefer west system epoxy-mixed with 403 adhesive fiber - after this is kicked,drill it and install your fasteners.
next option is to laminate a "block" of plywood,encapsulated in epoxy,mount the product to the block as needed.
composites are polyester based - meaning,they're brittle - the vibration,will cause the fibers to break,causing a loose fastener - 3m5200,or other products will not cure this problem...
big fan of composites !
I'm not trying to talk you out of using composites, because I think there great for most applications. IMO if you install a properly glassed plywood deck it will be just as strong but less expensive than a composite deck. If weight isn't a huge concern i would glass the botton of all the pieces with 1208 or even 10oz cloth. Glass the top with 1708 or a couple layers of 1208. Wherever you need to drill into the floor, oversize the hole, fill with thickend epoxy and then drill to the correct size. I don't have much experience with polyester or vinlyester resins so I don't know if my statements stand true if your using them, but if your using epoxy then plywood will work just fine.
With all that said, (hopefully it makes sense) divinycell is probably my favorite composite to work with, and could probably be used for a floor.
Goodluck
Paul
With all that said, (hopefully it makes sense) divinycell is probably my favorite composite to work with, and could probably be used for a floor.
Goodluck
Paul
tashmoo2
1st Mate
Replace deck with composites
I have done several balsa core and polyester resin over fir replacments on boats I owned. Fir plywood with check and rot if you do not cover bottom with epoxy and cloth as Paul says. Check out Classicseacraft.com and you will find everything you need to know about all deck material options and sources of epoxy. WEST is good but very expensive and you have to deal with the oily layer after it cures called amine blush. There are other less expensive sources of epoxy that do not blush. I like nida core if you want a light deck but it will not hold fasteners. Divinicell is good too. I think coosa is better for a transom in outboard boat than a deck.
I have done several balsa core and polyester resin over fir replacments on boats I owned. Fir plywood with check and rot if you do not cover bottom with epoxy and cloth as Paul says. Check out Classicseacraft.com and you will find everything you need to know about all deck material options and sources of epoxy. WEST is good but very expensive and you have to deal with the oily layer after it cures called amine blush. There are other less expensive sources of epoxy that do not blush. I like nida core if you want a light deck but it will not hold fasteners. Divinicell is good too. I think coosa is better for a transom in outboard boat than a deck.
If the hull is ventilated well on the underside, epoxy/marine ply is great. I believe that inboard boats are better ventilated than outboards because installers need to provide air to the engine. Outboard boats are clam tight so moisture get into the ply. The marine ply floor I had in an old boat was still in good condition 30years later. There were also no wacky holes drilled either.
OK, so since my last post I've had opertunity to go aboard 2 seme new down east vessel and spoke to owner about them. 38 Northern bay " Destiny" and 42 Westmack. Both boast "Have no wood"! except for some internal trim work. Spoke to Owner of Westmac for quite a while (friend) and he swears by the composite stuff. So now I'm 100% committed to using composite material on this deck replacement.
So the call Goes out to one and all who have used composite's on DE's...any info and advise will be appreciated. I will not start anything till boat out of water. Aprox end of OCT early Nov. When deck torn up, the games will begin....
regards and jump on
Tommy
So the call Goes out to one and all who have used composite's on DE's...any info and advise will be appreciated. I will not start anything till boat out of water. Aprox end of OCT early Nov. When deck torn up, the games will begin....
regards and jump on
Tommy
CEShawn
Admiral
Really wish I had some pictures of when I was up trying to build a downeast back in the early 2000's. I just want to see the work again. I am used to having pressure treated wood for the framing and glassed plywood. I've never seen a problem with it but can imagine it being there if not treated right.
I still think a plywood/glassed deck is my favorite list. If your going to use composite decking material, what is the frame going to be made out of?
I saw them using the fiberglass angle iron and other shapes for making the deck frame before. Pretty neat and lightweight stuff, had some great pictures just don't know where they are. We need a good building thread job on this board for sure. I do not see a lot on the internet to begin with in regards to decking a downeast.
I still think a plywood/glassed deck is my favorite list. If your going to use composite decking material, what is the frame going to be made out of?
I saw them using the fiberglass angle iron and other shapes for making the deck frame before. Pretty neat and lightweight stuff, had some great pictures just don't know where they are. We need a good building thread job on this board for sure. I do not see a lot on the internet to begin with in regards to decking a downeast.
tunaorlater
Admiral
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When you say work deck do you work this boat where you will be dropping heavy wieghts or traps on the deck alot? If so I would recomend not using nida core(my favorite) because it will compact and break the glass with enough force. If you are a tuna fisherman its a great light wieght product. If you truly "work" the boat I would personally replace with plywood done correctly. BTW Destiney is a sweet NB and light as hell!!
CEShawn
Admiral
A friend of mine just gave me a few unusable Nidacore panels, scraps. I have used them to make some shelving on the boat and really like the stuff. I know there have been some disaster story's of people using Nidacore inappropriately. As new things come out there is a learning curve with all of this.
I'm wondering, up for discussion, where the line is for using Nidacore panels in the cockpit area. I do not sling traps around but use the boat heavy commercial rod and reel fishing. From carrying Bomar boxes filled to 1000lbs, drums of diesel and other items. I know the substructure of pressure treated frame and plywood never failed me.
Anyone know what the laminate schedule is for using Nidacore as a cockpit deck? What goes over it for glass?epoxy? we can skip the actual non skid paint/gelcoat that is another debate.
I'm wondering, up for discussion, where the line is for using Nidacore panels in the cockpit area. I do not sling traps around but use the boat heavy commercial rod and reel fishing. From carrying Bomar boxes filled to 1000lbs, drums of diesel and other items. I know the substructure of pressure treated frame and plywood never failed me.
Anyone know what the laminate schedule is for using Nidacore as a cockpit deck? What goes over it for glass?epoxy? we can skip the actual non skid paint/gelcoat that is another debate.
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Frigate
Captain
One of the things that put Ken Flower on my list of boat builders was an article in the "National Fishermen" in 2003 or 2004. The article told about boat builders in Maine who were innovative. In the article it told how Ken Flower was the pioneer in not just using composit decking but fiberglass supports under the decking. Ken builds fiberglass columns and fiberglass wide flange beams that support the deck. When Ken finished my 38' Duffy he said we saved 2500 pounds of weight using fiberglass supports and beams and composit decking (Nidacore) as opposed to wood framing and glassed plywood.
If you have questions about composit decking Ken Flower is the one to call. 207-563-7404.
Below is a picture of me sitting against the aft bulkhead of the engine room during construction showing the fiberglass column, fiberglass wide flange beams and Nidacore decking.
If you have questions about composit decking Ken Flower is the one to call. 207-563-7404.
Below is a picture of me sitting against the aft bulkhead of the engine room during construction showing the fiberglass column, fiberglass wide flange beams and Nidacore decking.
Eastporter
Admiral
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Great photo- thanks for sharing! I like how engineered products can be used to keep the boat lighter, and they can be strong if properly supported. No rot is a selling point too.
CEShawn
Admiral
Ahh I love the big downeasters! I used to lay out almost like that on my old H&H.
I saw Duffy/Atlantic Boats back in the early 2000's doing somewhat of that same thing. I am trying to find out if these I-beam and angle iron fiberglass items are straight from McMaster and Grainger that I see?
Do you have any shots on how they tie it into the bulkhead or deck flange on the side? That is really what I want to remember for when I replace mine. I ended up replacing some of my deck supports from old 4x4's to aluminum which saved alot of space in itself and made it look better.
Love picture's of downeast boats being built!
I saw Duffy/Atlantic Boats back in the early 2000's doing somewhat of that same thing. I am trying to find out if these I-beam and angle iron fiberglass items are straight from McMaster and Grainger that I see?
Do you have any shots on how they tie it into the bulkhead or deck flange on the side? That is really what I want to remember for when I replace mine. I ended up replacing some of my deck supports from old 4x4's to aluminum which saved alot of space in itself and made it look better.
Love picture's of downeast boats being built!
Blitzen
Admiral
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Frigate is on the money. Nidacore laid up properly will not dent if you drop a downrigger ball on it and will last a long time, it all boils down to how much you want to spend and time to take the extra steps to work with the core.
Frigate
Captain
CEShawn,
Atlantic Boats I beam framing is not like Ken Flower's. Well in 2004 it was not the same. When I made the final payment on my hull and top I got a tour of the place. They showed me their I beam system. The problem with it was that the beams and columns were hard plastic. Nothing would adhere to it. You could not glass Nidacore to it or glass the framing together. Atlantic Boat was bolting the framing together like it was a building. All I could think was boats move differently than buildings. Think nuts and washers rolling around in the bilge!
Over the winter when I do a clean up of the computer area I'll find the CDs with the build pictures and will post some.
Blitzen,
Next time you talk to Kenny ask him how Anthony's (Pin Head) boat is coming.
For eveyone else on the site Ken Flower is building one of his 38's with a 1015hp Cat that will be coming to Shinnecock next spring.
Atlantic Boats I beam framing is not like Ken Flower's. Well in 2004 it was not the same. When I made the final payment on my hull and top I got a tour of the place. They showed me their I beam system. The problem with it was that the beams and columns were hard plastic. Nothing would adhere to it. You could not glass Nidacore to it or glass the framing together. Atlantic Boat was bolting the framing together like it was a building. All I could think was boats move differently than buildings. Think nuts and washers rolling around in the bilge!
Over the winter when I do a clean up of the computer area I'll find the CDs with the build pictures and will post some.
Blitzen,
Next time you talk to Kenny ask him how Anthony's (Pin Head) boat is coming.
For eveyone else on the site Ken Flower is building one of his 38's with a 1015hp Cat that will be coming to Shinnecock next spring.
Ok guess I'm back! LoL
Tuna or later - I charter and tuna. no traps,dredges or any other hea gear on deck.
Frigate-- thanks for Ken Flowers info...will call him when I get a chance.
Boat not yet out of water but doing research
Tomy
Tuna or later - I charter and tuna. no traps,dredges or any other hea gear on deck.
Frigate-- thanks for Ken Flowers info...will call him when I get a chance.
Boat not yet out of water but doing research
Tomy
CaptDave
Commodore
Pictures
There are some pictures in these slide shows that Stew of SW Boatworks has put together on some of his builds. You can see the I Beams and composite decking. Not sure what he uses for I Beams but it may be Extren for the Beams and the Coosa Board for the deck. They had a mock up of this at the Maine Boat Builders show all done up and it was very soild. Here is the link
Work in Progress at SW Boatworks in Lamoine Maine
Dave
There are some pictures in these slide shows that Stew of SW Boatworks has put together on some of his builds. You can see the I Beams and composite decking. Not sure what he uses for I Beams but it may be Extren for the Beams and the Coosa Board for the deck. They had a mock up of this at the Maine Boat Builders show all done up and it was very soild. Here is the link
Work in Progress at SW Boatworks in Lamoine Maine
Dave
Last week I learned alot about using the products I've selected to use.
COOSA will be my decking. Hamilton Marine is NE supplier and had very good conversatation with Darrell at Hamilton. He suggested I speak with Stewart at S W Boatworks. (S W BOATWORKS.Com) they build Beal, Westmac, etc. and have pic's on their site. Shows Coosa decking and composite / fiberglass support beams.
Spoke with Stewart (He's the S in SW.lol) and he informed me that they use both adheasive and scews for attaching deck. He uses 5200.
Support beam @ Hamilton built and named STRONGWELL. Can see all this in Hamilton web site.
Do to cold wx when I do this product, I have been convinced to go with West System do to low temp working ability. 40's as apposed to 65 deg.
Spoke with COOSA and they informed me that they already sent samples to West System for testing. Spoke with West System and they report over 1000 PSI before any failure. Coosa broke before West System bond broke.
more to follow as I get project going...best to all Tomy
COOSA will be my decking. Hamilton Marine is NE supplier and had very good conversatation with Darrell at Hamilton. He suggested I speak with Stewart at S W Boatworks. (S W BOATWORKS.Com) they build Beal, Westmac, etc. and have pic's on their site. Shows Coosa decking and composite / fiberglass support beams.
Spoke with Stewart (He's the S in SW.lol) and he informed me that they use both adheasive and scews for attaching deck. He uses 5200.
Support beam @ Hamilton built and named STRONGWELL. Can see all this in Hamilton web site.
Do to cold wx when I do this product, I have been convinced to go with West System do to low temp working ability. 40's as apposed to 65 deg.
Spoke with COOSA and they informed me that they already sent samples to West System for testing. Spoke with West System and they report over 1000 PSI before any failure. Coosa broke before West System bond broke.
more to follow as I get project going...best to all Tomy
ok here is build question for tuna and the other pro's here..(And that statement is with alot of respect for you guys...have seen your other "BUILD" posts)
Friend has Northern bay and his indeck hatchs are a little raised up for water to scupper away as apposed to collecting around hatch. (think that is where some of my problem came from) Do any of you guys have idea's on how I should/will raise edge of hatch to get this scupper effect? thanks in advance...Tomy
Friend has Northern bay and his indeck hatchs are a little raised up for water to scupper away as apposed to collecting around hatch. (think that is where some of my problem came from) Do any of you guys have idea's on how I should/will raise edge of hatch to get this scupper effect? thanks in advance...Tomy
