Shop heat - Toyo Laser or Heat Pump?

Snake8

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New shop/garage will be done in a few weeks. I was fully committed to getting a Toyo laser diesel/home heating oil unit (prob 2k all in) until a friend of mine started questioning me on my efficiency numbers. Doing the research to back my claims I came across heat pumps (3k maybe 3500 all in) and now I am torn.

Heat pump pros
- very efficient
- also functions as A/C
-easy install

Cons
-higher initial cost
- wont run if power is out (very rare in my town, we have a backup generator so unless its a very local issue we very rarely have power outages) and this is a detached shop, if the power goes out I am not going to perish
-doesnt run well below -4f (also pretty rare in my coastal villa and if its that fucking cold Ill do something else)

Toyo pro
- lower initial cost
-similar efficiency numbers
-easy install

Cons
-fuel and its known issues - variable cost, filtration, delivery etc.,
- tank takes up shop space

Im starting to lean towards the pump...talk me into or out of my decision please!!! Shop is 1500 sq ft on two floors.
 

Cool Boat

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To really give you a good answer your hours of operation will also need to be looked at, as well as the temperature settings during occupied/unoccupied. What part of the country are you in?
We put high mass floor radiant in our 2400 sq ft shop about 5 years ago. Great heat, which we leave on all the time. We run it off of a high efficiency Takagi propane instantaneous hot water heater. I would have rather put in a geothermal heat pump but initial costs were much less for the propane and DE electric rates are high. I have half a dozen slightly used solar panels in storage which I may integrate into the system one day too.
 

Snake8

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To really give you a good answer your hours of operation will also need to be looked at, as well as the temperature settings during occupied/unoccupied. What part of the country are you in?
We put high mass floor radiant in our 2400 sq ft shop about 5 years ago. Great heat, which we leave on all the time. We run it off of a high efficiency Takagi propane instantaneous hot water heater. I would have rather put in a geothermal heat pump but initial costs were much less for the propane and DE electric rates are high. I have half a dozen slightly used solar panels in storage which I may integrate into the system one day too.
North of Boston coastal MA. And Im not going geothermal, just a plug in 30-35k btu unit. Electric is .1425/kwh

Unnocupied can be be ambient temp, there is no plumbing, there will eventually be a slop sink from rainwater after the inspectors go away.
Occupied just normal 65-70
Building is very well insulated, second floor can be closed off from the bottom floor.

Cost (initial and running) is not necessarily the driving factor. Seems to me the cost to operate will be close with both, the initial cost difference isnt huge, and though I very rarely use A/C having it is a nice bonus.
 

Cool Boat

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Your electric rates are good and will hopefully remain steady, certainly steadier than petroleum. If your total of unoccupied hours per week is not high, I would go with the lowest up front cost. The AC question, however, may tip you one way or another. Just avoid open flames if you might have flammable work going on. I do note that in summer we keep the shop sealed up as tight as possible and run a dehumidifier. We can have daytime temperatures 10-15 degrees below outside in August. With low humidity it feels good too.

With the upstairs being isolated, in one of my smaller shops we put in-floor radiant in one part. We run it off of a small electric water heater as needed. This is an antifreeze filled radiant system since we only use it occasionally. We put radiant floor heat in the house too, under the wood subfloor in some areas, under ceramic tile in others. A window AC unit may suffice if summer use is planned upstairs. A mini-split system might be great for the upstairs. These small heat pump systems work great in some applications and we had excellent success with them in server rooms in the school district.

If spray painting downstairs I would avoid anything with coils or know that it will need to be shut off. An exhaust fan might be worth putting in too.

You shop sounds great. Please share some pictures of it at some point.
 

WoundUpMarine

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Andyf32

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I use a heat pump in a 10x26 garage with 10 foot ceilings. I run it year round for heat and AC. Seems to be really efficient and not much in the way of maintenance. I also have one in my house I use mostly for AC but have used it to back up the boiler a few times.
 

steveinak

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1000's of Toyo stoves used in Alaska, i have 2 one in my wife's playhouse(12x20 cabin with loft) and one in my shop 24x32. Both supply all the heat you need, don't burn much fuel and have been dependable.
 

Genius

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what are the heat pumps all about? Are they taking heat from outside air or from the ground. Also, what is the output; air or water/glycol.

I used a small geyser (maine company) for domestic hot water. It's ok, a bit more efficient than gas or electric.
 

WoundUpMarine

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Genius

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Heat pumps are just mini-split A/C units that run in reverse cycle to pump heat into the house. They have a small air handler that mounts to the wall, the compressor is outside. They're good units, efficient and quiet.
OK, the wall units. Yup, I'm familiar with those.
 

Snake8

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I am leaning hard to heat pump at this point. The toyo seems like a great unit, especially for off grid or areas with expensive or unreliable electricity. As it turns out my buddy who is helping to build the garage wrote his masters thesis on heat pumps - not sure why he never mentioned it until now Ive known the guy 30 years. But in my situation I think and for the reasons you guys mentioned - the dehumidifying etc., the heat pump is the way to go. Having said that, I am thinking of a toyo for my off grid hunting camp so I dont have to deal with plumbing bullshit every time I come and go.
 

steveinak

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I am leaning hard to heat pump at this point. The toyo seems like a great unit, especially for off grid or areas with expensive or unreliable electricity. As it turns out my buddy who is helping to build the garage wrote his masters thesis on heat pumps - not sure why he never mentioned it until now Ive known the guy 30 years. But in my situation I think and for the reasons you guys mentioned - the dehumidifying etc., the heat pump is the way to go. Having said that, I am thinking of a toyo for my off grid hunting camp so I dont have to deal with plumbing bullshit every time I come and go.
the downfall of the toyo's is they need electricity to run, no power no heat.
 
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