Steering tie rod end, is washers as spacers permissible here?

[leaky]

Been fine tuning this before I go drilling. Got it pretty close now.

First odd thing I ran into was although everything was seemingly lined up perfectly true, the cutout on the tie rod end was able to catch on the tiller arm when the cylinder was fully compressed.

A couple washers between the tie rod end and tiller raise it up enough so the possibility is alleviated.

Don't get why all standard stuff mounted with care would do this but options seem to be basically add a spacer (washers), grind material away from things, or mount the cylinder higher at such an angle that it prevents contact.

Thanks in advance!

 

[GLA]

last time I had my steering all apart to repack the rudder, I was able to buy some pretty thick
silicon bronze washers (bushings) out of McMaster carr to level everything out
they have held up great

 

[tunafishhkg]

I see no issue with washers unless a washer reduces needed pivot play? I use stainless 316L spacer the same diameter if thickness is needed.

 

[plowin]

There is so little wear there you will be fine. Its not like a prop shaft that is spinning at relatively high rpm. All that rudder is gonna do is vibrate and go back and forth, same principal behind cranking the packing nut on the rudder stuffing box down.

 

[junkman]

.

 

[BillD]

Leaky,

Plowin is correct, not much movement or wear back there.

I used a 3/4" diameter bolt, SS and nylon washers top and bottom.
Nylon of course top and bottom on the tiller.
Also, the gimbal insert prevents any binding on the 35 degree swings.

I did not use nylon on the 25 T Jason setup. I used the same SEAFIRST ram in both boats.

 

[leaky]

Cool ok thanks guys!

Yes the cutout in the rod end permits a round spacer about exactly the size of the 5/8 washers I have (bolt and eye is 5/8 too), although I also have the smaller diameter aircraft spec size.

May go and source something thicker so I can use just one but sounds like spacing is the way to do it.

 

[Keelboater]

I would shim the cylinder base up higher with a piece of flat stock to get the load truly in-line and perpendicular to the tiller arm bolt. It's also a stationary shim where you can just bolt it down and forget about it.

 

[leaky]

I would shim the cylinder base up higher with a piece of flat stock to get the load truly in-line and perpendicular to the tiller arm bolt. It's also a stationary shim where you can just bolt it down and forget about it.

So the funny thing is it is perfectly inline/square, basically what I did was I duplicated the angle of the rudder on the base for the cylinder, like nearly perfect - I didn't use actual gravity level rather I set the cylinder base a perfect 90 degrees to the rudder shaft, then made sure the cylinder & shaft similarly were at that perfect 90 degrees by adjusting the height of the tiller.

I ASSumed that would be the perfect machine. But something about the depth of the cutout in the tie rod end and width of the tiller, creates that possibility of binding if the tie rod lands directly on the tiller.

Now I could make the cylinder not perpendicular, by raising the base of the cylinder up so it's basically pointing "down" at the tiller, but it would potentially take a lot of raising (like maybe 1/2 inch) to create the same clearance I would get by say 1/8 inch of spacer right under the tie rod end. That is definitely an option that would work too though.

 

[Keelboater]

I was just thinking 1/8" shim or 11 ga. material. Something sounds off. I'm sure you'll figure it out. Hard to say without being there. just trying to help.

 

[leaky]

I was just thinking 1/8" shim or 11 ga. material. Something sounds off. I'm sure you'll figure it out. Hard to say without being there. just trying to help.

Oh no, thanks for the help, my thoughts too, seems like it just ought to work and can't see why they wouldn't build the right clearance in or what is different here.

One possibility is they assume a tiller that isn't a full 2 inches wide for a 1.5 inch cylinder. Many tillers taper toward the end or wouldn't be as wide for my 1.25 shaft and 1.5 cylinder. I am using a tiller that is longer than needed so is dimensioned a bit differently.

 

[ArchHibb]

@Bill - why nylon washers? Movement occurs between the heim joint ball swivel (which is bolted tight to the tiller arm) and the casing (which is attached to the ram). There should be no movement between the swivel and the tiller arm.

 

[tunafishhkg]

Cool ok thanks guys!

Yes the cutout in the rod end permits a round spacer about exactly the size of the 5/8 washers I have (bolt and eye is 5/8 too), although I also have the smaller diameter aircraft spec size.

May go and source something thicker so I can use just one but sounds like spacing is the way to do it.

Heavy wall spacer cut or sourced to needed height, will be thinner than joint ball so will allow full design movement of the heim joint. A big washer close to edges might interfere but I doubt if its that far off by your workmanship!

 

[BillD]

@Bill - why nylon washers? Movement occurs between the heim joint ball swivel (which is bolted tight to the tiller arm) and the casing (which is attached to the ram). There should be no movement between the swivel and the tiller arm.

Recommended by one of the boat shop mechanics. I didn't care one way or the other.
Hamilton's in Kittery stocks every size nylon washer so a grabbed a couple. If they hadn't be handy next to the SS hardware I wouldn't have bothered. Can't hurt and easily replaced/removed. Also, no metal to metal contact.

Leaky?? Can you raise and lower the tiller to get ball joint swivel level with the tiller face?

 

[leaky]

Recommended by one of the boat shop mechanics. I didn't care one way or the other.
Hamilton's in Kittery stocks every size nylon washer so a grabbed a couple. If they hadn't be handy next to the SS hardware I wouldn't have bothered. Can't hurt and easily replaced/removed. Also, no metal to metal contact.

Leaky?? Can you raise and lower the tiller to get ball joint swivel level with the tiller face?

So the thing is, it is level. Issue is if you look at the cutout on the top here and how it lines up with the edge of the tiller, bottom is the same and the mating surface actually is further recessed than the area outside the cutout. So basically without a spacer or way raising the cylinder mounting so its pointing down at a significant angle, jam city.

Do have tons of adjustment available, just does seem like a spacer is the right thing?

Hope that makes sense..





Look at how much lower the face of the washer is here compared to the area outside the cutout:

 

[andy65]

I have the same problem. The rod bearing contacts the arm at full extension. Look closely and wear on the arm is visible. Your leveling is not the cause of the problem. The rod end bearing is not designed to mate with a part larger than its diameter since the bearing is recessed from the shaft. A stud rod bearing is designed to be used to mate with a flat surface. May be hard to find in stainless and right size. Or use a washer.

 

[leaky]

I have the same problem. The rod bearing contacts the arm at full extension. Look closely and wear on the arm is visible. Your leveling is not the cause of the problem. The rod end bearing is not designed to mate with a part larger than its diameter since the bearing is recessed from the shaft. A stud rod bearing is designed to be used to mate with a flat surface. May be hard to find in stainless and right size. Or use a washer.

View attachment 104151

View attachment 104152

Yes it's odd how Seastar would ship them as such, this is probably the most common 150 cylinder you find.

Could of course just replace the end but a shim will do it, once I put 1/8 inch of shim under there, whole problem goes away.

Wasn't delighted with how the washers I was using lined up, basically a 5/8 washer has a hole > 5/8 by a good margin, so you aren't giving the tie rod end the best seat. I have some extra thick 304 SS washers for 1/2 inch, that end up being the perfect size OD, and I drilled one up to an exact 5/8 - was a nice fit doing it that way.

Going to see about sourcing a similar shim/bushing in bronze or 316 SS, but if nothing jumps out at me these will work, worst scenario might rust a little over time but aren't going to just disintegrate. Or I suppose I could also drill up normal 1/2 inch 316 washers, which I have a ton of, and could use a couple to make the same height.

 

[Keelboater]

So the arm is hitting "the body" of the rod end. I took a look at mine and I had installed a washer on either side of the arm and had just enough clearance in that area.

 

[BillD]

bolt it all together, open the bleed valves and turn the rudder by hand back and forth.
No binding it's good to go.
Nothing you can't tweak after the boat gets launched

 

[leaky]

So the arm is hitting "the body" of the rod end. I took a look at mine and I had installed a washer on either side of the arm and had just enough clearance in that area.

Yes and it's looking like that is the "standard" setup around here. Probably only confusing to me because I've never dealt w/ the inboard setup and was reading the instructions that make no mention of such a shim involved , on my outboards, tie bars, etc.. I just pieced stuff together that seemed sane and never thought about it further or ever had a problem beyond wearing out a tie rod end here and there.

Found some thick 316 washers on Ebay, guy turns a bunch of different size spacers & heavy washers in a machine shop and sells them there, ordered a couple different styles, should be good go with those.