Toolate's 30 Sisu repower/remodel

Toolate

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Cant find the other thread so starting over.

Did a few hours of grinding today to get over the hump and finally be ready to paint the bilge and start re-assembly process. So far I have removed: the settee and galley cabinets, engine, gear, all tanks and anything with a hose attached to it, shaft & prop, rudder, keel shoe, all seacocks, rudder bearing and had the bottom blasted. She is pretty bare except for the original electrical and steering system that seem to be in good working order (hoping not to have to do this now, knock on wood).

I have been working with Chris from Precision Marine (see the ads around here lately?) on a HUGE list of parts to get me going from GPS to shaft seals to electrical to fiberglass to paint products. He is a wealth of information and I have found that his prices can not be beat. Plus they are close and in another state so the sales tax is also saved...

Anyway, thought I would post a picture of my tube/cutlass because there are a couple things I have never seen or read about on here. Mainly the water drips running down the hull from where I stopped grinding. See them just about a foot and a half up from the back of the keel? I assume that this is just some water trapped in the hull and it will stop after a bit. Bilge is dry and has been for a month plus bottom paint has been off for 2 months. Should I worry or just wait for it to dry?

Also one of the set screws for the cutlass is broken off in the bronze bar that the cutlass set screws are in. I am planning to take the other 3 out, apply some penetrating oil, heat and then try an easy-out which I expect will do nothing so will plan on then drilling and re-tapping a size up if need be. Cutlass will be new so I am not worried about damaging the old one. Any tips would be great. going to put the heat gun on it so I dont burn the FG.

image.jpg
 

Toolate

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Rudder hole in hull. All ground out ready for new bearing from Tides marine. It has O ring seals and a tube that gets fiberglassed in so should be a slick unit once I get it set up. Hull is about 3/4" sold glass here and the old bronze rudder post/packing was set on about 1" of what looked like thickened epoxy or hull & deck putty mixed with chopped strands. It was a little cracked so I ground it all off and will start fresh against the original glass for the new bearing sleeve.

image.jpg
 

Toolate

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Bottom of keel- ready for new shoe. Ground off a ton of old goo- some kind of caulk, paint, and just crap from many years of living under water. I think these bolts were leaking based on the water in the bilge so thanks Larry for suggesting that I re-bed this. Much easier with no shaft/rudder in the way. Got it nice and clean too so should seal up nicely.

So I am in my tent, laying in the grass under my 30 year old boat, ear plugs in, full face respirator, tyvek (XXL) suit, rubber gloves taped to the sleeves, grinding the shit out the hull while my kids and wife are playing in the yard just outside the tarp. I was actually enjoying myself. Is there something wrong with me, aside from the obvious, or does anyone else get this feeling now and then?

image.jpg
 

WC1966

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"Mainly the water drips running down the hull from where I stopped grinding. See them just about a foot and a half up from the back of the keel? I assume that this is just some water trapped in the hull and it will stop after a bit. Bilge is dry and has been for a month plus bottom paint has been off for 2 months. Should I worry or just wait for it to dry?"

Is the water in between the gel-coat and the glass?? When did the water start appearing? At the point you stopped grinding, or at the same level as the shaft and continued as you removed material?
 

captainlarry84

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Cant find the other thread so starting over.

Did a few hours of grinding today to get over the hump and finally be ready to paint the bilge and start re-assembly process. So far I have removed: the settee and galley cabinets, engine, gear, all tanks and anything with a hose attached to it, shaft & prop, rudder, keel shoe, all seacocks, rudder bearing and had the bottom blasted. She is pretty bare except for the original electrical and steering system that seem to be in good working order (hoping not to have to do this now, knock on wood).

I have been working with Chris from Precision Marine (see the ads around here lately?) on a HUGE list of parts to get me going from GPS to shaft seals to electrical to fiberglass to paint products. He is a wealth of information and I have found that his prices can not be beat. Plus they are close and in another state so the sales tax is also saved...

Anyway, thought I would post a picture of my tube/cutlass because there are a couple things I have never seen or read about on here. Mainly the water drips running down the hull from where I stopped grinding. See them just about a foot and a half up from the back of the keel? I assume that this is just some water trapped in the hull and it will stop after a bit. Bilge is dry and has been for a month plus bottom paint has been off for 2 months. Should I worry or just wait for it to dry?

Also one of the set screws for the cutlass is broken off in the bronze bar that the cutlass set screws are in. I am planning to take the other 3 out, apply some penetrating oil, heat and then try an easy-out which I expect will do nothing so will plan on then drilling and re-tapping a size up if need be. Cutlass will be new so I am not worried about damaging the old one. Any tips would be great. going to put the heat gun on it so I dont burn the FG.
Don't even both just over size drill the broken set screw out. Fill that hole & drill and tap a new one next to it. I see they used bolds. I like to see allen sets. They are easier to glass over and easier to remove. The water drips bother me a little. I would have the hull checked with a moisture meter to see if there is a problem. If you can not get a meter maybe drill a few very small hole into the outer skin to see if water comes out. The holes will be easy to fill with Hull & Deck putty, just bevel the edges
 

Pamlico

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The bolts in the cutless must be a Sisu thing, mine has them too. I installed a cutlass today and used the bolts again. When it took it out they were not glassed over and I'm wondering if I need to do that. I did use a little thread lock on the bolts when I reinstalled them.

Any chance those drips are condensation from being in the tent?
 

Toolate

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Is the water in between the gel-coat and the glass?? When did the water start appearing? At the point you stopped grinding, or at the same level as the shaft and continued as you removed material?

At the top of where I stopped grinding. You can see a wavy line about 8" above the tube where I stopped and the two water trails start there. They appeared about an hour after I finished.
 

Toolate

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Don't even both just over size drill the broken set screw out. Fill that hole & drill and tap a new one next to it. I see they used bolds. I like to see allen sets. They are easier to glass over and easier to remove. The water drips bother me a little. I would have the hull checked with a moisture meter to see if there is a problem. If you can not get a meter maybe drill a few very small hole into the outer skin to see if water comes out. The holes will be easy to fill with Hull & Deck putty, just bevel the edges

Going to fall back to the moisture meter although it was done during survey when I bought the boat but I am suspicious of those readings because the hull had not dried and it had 30 years of flaky bottom paint and a bilge full of oily water. Not that there were any high readings but I think now I will get really accurate readings without any paint or metal in the hull.

Might just go about the drill holes method with some fairing and an epoxy barrier coat job coming in the spring. Nervous as hell now...

Should all cutlass set screws be glassed over? The bolts heads were and there was even a piece of solid wire glassed in to connect one bolt to the bronze keel shoe for bonding I assume. Will switch to allen set screws too and do my best to get that old bolt out or just drill and tap.
 

Toolate

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The bolts in the cutless must be a Sisu thing, mine has them too. I installed a cutlass today and used the bolts again. When it took it out they were not glassed over and I'm wondering if I need to do that. I did use a little thread lock on the bolts when I reinstalled them.

Any chance those drips are condensation from being in the tent?

I dont think so- they were just in that one spot and started right at the top perimeter of my grinding so I think I released that water somehow from inside the gelcoat.

Will gelcoat hold a little water?
 

Toolate

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Did you notice any blisters when you were grinding?

Not a single one. There was a little "rock rash" on the bow from a close encounter but that was just about a 2" square chip out of the gelcoat in the bow. Below the water line but it was roughly 15' away.

Just looked and the streams have stopped flowing but the boat is covered in condensation so I wiped the whole area clean and dry and will look again later. The hull is solid glass in this area.
 
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captainlarry84

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I would just go with all allen heads. & glass them over. The jumper wire from one of the bolts I have never seen before. I also do not think you need it. Once the allens are all buried in glass and the cutlass bearing is fit snug into the shaft you are done. I have never in all my years seen a cutlass bearing housed in a wetube to get attacked by electrolysis. The most important thing is make sure that you have an excellent source of water to feed the bearing. With good water pressure the bearing will last for many seasons. The bigger the reduction gear the slow it turns the longer it lasts. Fine a good source of water off the motor, make sure the source port is not so low in the cooling system that a small piece of old zinc pencil can clog it. On my wetube I also drilled two water feed holes angled back. The water feed holes are just in front of the cutlass bearing. This feed holes are there in the event the main water feed gets clog. With these two water feed holes the bearing can never run dry. This photo shows the water feed hole and you can see both of the allen that are covered. When I glass the allens I put a small dab of silicone into the allen head, next I glass. On removal the silicone is a lot easier to dig out that F/G & you do not damage the allen heads.

As far as the moisture goes. Don't over think this she is a very old boat and if you think all 30 Plus rigs are 100 % then put you teeth under your pillow...... The keel on your Susi down that low in solid I am sure you have done some grinding in the lowest part of the hull where the coring most likely stops. That would be the most likely spot than a small amount of water could be trapped. If so maybe the small hole trick and see what comes out. Also remember salt water will not rot core on fresh water will. The odds of that being fresh water is zero. So do not loss sleep over this.
I have seen it before. My buddy damage his keel on a 35 Duffy & some water drip out. The water stopped they grinding out the damage and the keel was fine & that was 6 years ago.

kristen 009.jpg
 

55andoutt

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Water

Hey ,as you know I have the same boat , I see what I think is a Keel drain plug on your photo. I pulled mine and got a little water from it. I know your water is higher ,but it couldn't hurt to pull the plug. I also just replaced my cutlass .it was real tough to get out. Captlarry was a big help. What I ended up doing was banging it out from inside with a 30"piece of rigid 1 -3/4" OD pipe . I'm now putting every thing back together and realized the short cutlass the rudder sits in was shot. I was able to pop It out and ordered a new one. Take a look at yours. I can send you a piece if u need it.
 

Toolate

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55 I am making a new rudder and bearings as well as skeg bar so it will all be new. Also my bilge is dry as can be. The holes in the bottom were from the bronze keel shoe and they are all open so it really is bone dry in there. I followed your cutlass fight remember?

Up to my ass in Sisu right now haha. I appreciate any and all comments and criticism with this. Having a blast doing it and dont know where I would be without this place so thanks!
 

Toolate

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On my wetube I also drilled two water feed holes angled back. The water feed holes are just in front of the cutlass bearing. This feed holes are there in the event the main water feed gets clog. With these two water feed holes the bearing can never run dry. This photo shows the water feed hole and you can see both of the allen that are covered. When I glass the allens I put a small dab of silicone into the allen head, next I glass.

As far as the moisture goes. Don't over think this she is a very old boat and if you think all 30 Plus rigs are 100 % then put you teeth under your pillow...... The keel on your Susi down that low in solid I am sure you have done some grinding in the lowest part of the hull where the coring most likely stops. That would be the most likely spot than a small amount of water could be trapped. If so maybe the small hole trick and see what comes out. Also remember salt water will not rot core on fresh water will. The odds of that being fresh water is zero. So do not loss sleep over this.
I have seen it before. My buddy damage his keel on a 35 Duffy & some water drip out. The water stopped they grinding out the damage and the keel was fine & that was 6 years ago.

Great advice here as usual.

My boat actually has water inlet holes for the cutlass and they are clear and will remain so. I am actually going to put in a PSS as well so should be plenty of flow there.

I checked on the boat 2x now and that water is gone. I even drilled a couple holes through the outer skin and into the balsa (4 holes per side evenly spaced front to back) around the boat down low where the balsa core stops and the dust was bone dry/no drips so I think you are right. This is a very good feeling with a 30 year old boat....

Plus, the hull will sit the way it is, dry bilge, under a roof, no bottom paint, for a couple months so will be as dry as it has ever been just before getting a nice epoxy barrier coat job and bottom paint. Thanks
 

captainlarry84

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See... not to worry you boat is very sound I ma sure. Leave the holes opened also until you are ready to paint. On fill the holes make sure you bevel the edges all the way around, then push the Hull & Deck putty in with a stiff putty knife...all fixed. Sleep tight.
 

Toolate

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See... not to worry you boat is very sound I ma sure. Leave the holes opened also until you are ready to paint. On fill the holes make sure you bevel the edges all the way around, then push the Hull & Deck putty in with a stiff putty knife...all fixed. Sleep tight.

Drilled them with a countersink so the bevel is already there. The boat had 4 seacocks and 2 transducers and no wet spots so I feel lucky. Solid glass around all the old holes...

Sisu apparently could install seacocks. Fuel fill hoses maybe not. Removed mine and threw them away before examining them to see fi they were heater hose. That gas explosion thread came along a week or 2 after I removed mine.
 

Toolate

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Got a short day in today-

Unscrewed my bridge and blocked it up to get at all the screw holes. Want to de-core them and fill them right and set the bridge back down on new caulk. The old caulk is good stuff man. Not easy to remove and still flexible.

No water drips anywhere in the cabin and the P side aft end of the top is the only slight wet spot I can find so will repair that from the inside before headliner.

image.jpg
 

Toolate

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De-cored all the deck penetrations now that the rail, rubrail, cleats and sprit are all off. Rod holders and fill locations too. again mostly dry clean wood fibers except under sprit so will have to look into that when windlass shows up.

Looks like Sisu coated/slightly filled the edge of the balsa with what looks like thickened epoxy (light brown) but who knows. I chopped it all out with fein tool and Allen wrench so I can fill with hull and deck as soon as it comes.

image.jpg
 

Toolate

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Got to try my hand at removing the cutlass too. 3 out of 4 retaining bolts broke. Bit broke in one of the bolts. Previous owner had put retaining bolts all the way through the tube of the cutlass too. Drilled and cut with recip saw. All in an hour or so not bad at all.

The big channel locks are your friend.

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