would removing the keel and adding outboard make a boat less seaworthy

guitarman

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In your opinions [ if say for example only] you took a 28' seaworthy which is an offshore boat removed the keel and put on twin out boards would doing that make it no longer an offshore boat? Say 50 to 100 miles offshore?
 

jerseysportfisher

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I would say depends on the person and what their idea of seaworthy is, i have friends that takes searays into the hudson and are perfectly comfortable doing so. You go on other websites and the south florida guys idea of seaworthy is do 65 mph in 2 foot chop.
 

Robert M

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Hopeing someone can explain the idea , or why there is a lot of interest in going this route? Not judging just would like to understand.
There many decent mass produced keeless ,outboard boats, even many with pilot houses and the "Downeast look" that we all love.
To me a "larger "Downeast besides its origin, is a stable keel hull, with a efficient single power plant. Of course there are many variations , but Take those main things away ,well ? Why not a Parker , osprey, etc? Most of those are great boats with there purpose.
Completely alter the important qualities of the boat, to get rid of an engine box?
Sorry meant to be more of a question then a statement, I'm sure I'm missing something.
 
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Hammer Slammer

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I can not speak for a 28' seaworthy, but I have seen shadow line (30' Duffy with outboards) in some nasty stuff, like 8 to 10'
 

guitarman

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I would be more concerned with the removal of the midship engine and changing the roll rate of the boat. I don't see how an outboard boat would be as stable on a drift as an inboard without adding ballast tanks.
Guitarman, I have read many of your posts, your looking for the perfect boat. Heads Up.. It does not exist.

the light bulb didn't exist either until someone invented it! Tell steve Jobs the perfect phone doesn't exist!
 
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Robert M

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the light bulb didn't exist either until someone invented it!

Should wait for the pros to chime in , but a what your talking about does exist already. It's called a 29' pro line with twin 200's on it. A hell of a lot cheaper Taking a bad ass little boat and cutting the bad ass out of it seems to make no sense.
There are lots of good boats with the design your talking about, there cheaper then 100g.
 

MouseTrap

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I'm no expert, but Mudhake has already said that he is unwilling to modify his 28 Seaworthy for an outboard (thinks it's a bad idea). So I would say the 28 BHM is not a candidate. He will put an outboard on his 25 which he says is a different hull design.

Troy Alley has built at least 2 outboard DE hulls from the ground up specifically designed for that power plant. One was a 31' with twin 200 Yamahas with a 12' beam. Boat went 50+ mph and took second place only to Foolish Pleasure a couple of years ago. His second boat is one he built for himself, and fishes lobster. It is a 34' and with a 225 Mercury 2 stroke he gets 36+ mph out of her.

I would say it can be done. Just do some homework and work with the builder that is comfortable making it right. That and have a thick skin about the inevitable comments :D.
 

Robert M

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My pro line comparison was extreme. I Guess my point is, if its the "look" you like of the seaworthy or Downeast boats in genral I can't blame you. Just curious as to why spend the money for a new build to take the best qualities away?
I get altering a new build to your needs ,but why start with a platform you plan on completely changing ?

I guess the definition of a Downeast means something a little different to everyone. Some feel its stricktly where there made. I consider it a genral design that puts it into that category. some feel its a look, others feel its simplicity.I guess all that matters is that it works in the end.
 
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guitarman

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My pro line comparison was extreme. I Guess my point is, if its the "look" you like of the seaworthy or Downeast boats in genral I can't blame you. Just curious as to why spend the money for a new build to take the best qualities away?
I get altering a new build to your needs ,but why start with a platform you plan on completely changing ?

I guess the definition of a Downeast means something a little different to everyone. Some feel its stricktly where there made. I consider it a genral design that puts it into that category. some feel its a look, others feel its simplicity.I guess all that matters is that it works in the end.

My reasoning is this, my back ground is in marketing there is a market for 26 to 29' cruising boat on the west coast ranger tug and cutwater saw this and can't build boats fast enough, They even call there cutwater a down east boat. it has to be trailerable easy on fuel alot of comforts and safe whilel most other boat builders are struggling making boats to big and expensive and are therefore missing a good market.Ranger tug is busy building boats i believe a down east boat 26' 29' with a galley up head up would be a big hit on the west coast, I all so know this market very well and at the seattle boat show people would see an engine box and walk away just like i did . But you give them a beautiful down eastboat with a pilot house
flush deck galley up I could sell them all day long. I know this because i been coming back to the east coast buy a boat my last one a seaway 25 coastal cruiser and sold it for a good profit and could have sold 4 more just like it if i could have found them. Of all the boat i cruised the inland passage in the downeast boat was the best suited for it and once people tried them out i believe they would sell them selves. Each small east coast builder could turn out a couple extra boats a year. but that engine box hurdle would have to be solved first. then have a co-op [me] on the west coast to help them create a market for there boats sea trial them and develop a market for them. and see what happens the boats have to be small other wise trucking become a problem plus alot of people can afford a smaller boat but are not will to pay 350,000 or more for a boat but will pay 100 to 200,000 for a boat San jaun yachts realized the look and went after the market, there is a small less expensive market for a beautiful down east pilot house there too. remember it rains 260 day a year there people live under the hard top. Hence i'm going to have as close to as perfect boat built just the way i want it and know that i can sell it and use it as my boat to show clients take them out for sea trials let them feel and touch the boat and then sell the downeast boat rather than the brand if you will. and buy them from any number of the good builder back there that are interested and a number are already. But i know what people back here are looking for and that's what i'm trying to achieve. i'm retiring this year at 51 years old, sell a few boats and maybe help out a boat builder or two also
Regards
 
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Robert M

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I understand I spent a lot of time looking at boats your talking about. Your right
There's not much option.

Just curious. Honest question . what is an actual de boat? Many companies from many states claim to build a de because they have a pilot house.

Trust me when the fish are up against the rocks I'd love to be able to pull up on the trim. Always had a thing for Parker's if I could have a collection I'd own one also.

Just an honest question for discussion . Maybe should of switched the thread.

If one of the reputable boat builders form this site was for some reasons to relocate to Florida. Would he be a Downeast boat builder still? Hasn't it become a design ?

Now If he cut the keel of his molds an bolted twin verados on would he still be a Downeast boat builder.

Things that make you go hmmm.
 
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guitarman

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Just a hunch, This does not end well.


Why because i think i can help some of these boat builder here break in to the west coast market and give them a contact out west by being willing to demo my own boat so people can see how great they're boats and maybe help them sell a few boats?
 

Robert M

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There was a 28 northern bay on here recently with a raised step. I realize people have mixed feelings about the raised step, and compare it to an engine box, but I personally wouldn't mind it if the whole house was enclosed anyway. A 4" lip at the door doesn't seem that bad .

Just looking at that thread. I see you saw it. Personally I think that's the nicest looking 28 I've seen , never been on one, but she's pretty.
 
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eyschulman

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Because of the use of DE in marketing the term does not mean much. This is like the marketing designation of a trawler. There are twiin IPS driive things being sold as trawlerrs because the marketing people think the buyers like the idea of owning a trawler. That term is also now useless with no specific meaning.
 

jerseysportfisher

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My reasoning is this, my back ground is in marketing there is a market for 26 to 29' cruising boat on the west coast ranger tug and cutwater saw this and can't build boats fast enough, They even call there cutwater a down east boat. it has to be trailerable easy on fuel alot of comforts and safe whilel most other boat builders are struggling making boats to big and expensive and are therefore missing a good market.Ranger tug is busy building boats i believe a down east boat 26' 29' with a galley up head up would be a big hit on the west coast, I all so know this market very well and at the seattle boat show people would see an engine box and walk away just like i did . But you give them a beautiful down eastboat with a pilot house
flush deck galley up I could sell them all day long. I know this because i been coming back to the east coast buy a boat my last one a seaway 25 coastal cruiser and sold it for a good profit and could have sold 4 more just like it if i could have found them. Of all the boat i cruised the inland passage in the downeast boat was the best suited for it and once people tried them out i believe they would sell them selves. Each small east coast builder could turn out a couple extra boats a year. but that engine box hurdle would have to be solved first. then have a co-op [me] on the west coast to help them create a market for there boats sea trial them and develop a market for them. and see what happens the boats have to be small other wise trucking become a problem plus alot of people can afford a smaller boat but are not will to pay 350,000 or more for a boat but will pay 100 to 200,000 for a boat San jaun yachts realized the look and went after the market, there is a small less expensive market for a beautiful down east pilot house there too. remember it rains 260 day a year there people live under the hard top. Hence i'm going to have as close to as perfect boat built just the way i want it and know that i can sell it and use it as my boat to show clients take them out for sea trials let them feel and touch the boat and then sell the downeast boat rather than the brand if you will. and buy them from any number of the good builder back there that are interested and a number are already. But i know what people back here are looking for and that's what i'm trying to achieve. i'm retiring this year at 51 years old, sell a few boats and maybe help out a boat builder or two also
Regards

I'm confused, you say people won;t spend 300-350K on boats. Yet you list san juan yachts where they are 500K +. There is a difference between marketing and real world. I talk with some carolina builders on a regular basis, and despite popular belief that the economy is booming, fact is its not. Theese guys are doing build to orders, not just pumping out a bunch of boats and relying on sales force and dealers to push them. if they did, they would be out of business real fast. The boating industry is almost flat lined right now, so why should a custom builder, produce lets say 15 28 foot boats just to have them sit in the yard for the next 5 years, maybe selling 1 or 2 a year ?
 


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